Fuck Ché Guevara

Discussion in 'Communism' started by goldmund, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. Hiptastic

    Hiptastic Unhedged

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    Word for word straight off the main North Korea page on wikipedia.

    But read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_North_Korea and you'll find its not quite that rosy - even by 1980 the country had already gone bankrupt and South Korea was three times wealthier. Again, you are instinctively making excuses for the failings of communist regimes - why? North Korea is probably the most oppressive regime on earth, and its economy is a disater, yet you look for the bright side.Why?
    Supported by who? Capitalism works, it doesn't need support.
    In the 1980s communism covered the USSR, the largest country in the world by size, China, the largest country in the world by population, as well as many other countries across the world. It was an enormous power, and had access to all the raw materials any system could need, plus access to over 1 billion people. Yet its an underdog? Yet is can still blame capitalism for its own failings? That makes no sense, it is just more excuse making.
    Its not pessimistic thinking. I am looking at what he did, what he said, not pretending none of that happened and remembering for having good hair and a rebel attitude.
    You should leave the house a bit more if you think most minorities live in ghettoes. Many immigrant communities in the US have been spectacularly successful.
    Inflation of goods constantly making it harder to purchase goods... yeah right. You mean oil? What's the monopoly - I thought we bought oil from developing countries. There is a capitalist conspiracy to get Venezuela and Nigeria rich?
    The poorest contries in Africa are the ones that have the least trade with and investment from the west. This completely contradicts your theory. You only have to look at how much distruction Mugabe did to Zimbabwe in a few short years to see that capitalism has nothing to do with it.
    If the US is in the middle east to take their natural resources, how come they never take their natural resources?
    You want the Taliban back?
    That may be how you picture them, but urbanisation in Latin America is about 75%.
    Nobody gets rich from smallholder agriculture, under any economic system.
    The fact that you bring up the Paris commune - which lasted all of two months - shows you know as well as I do that there are no relevant examples. As I already showed, Yugoslavia was not communist by your definition - and in fact the reason it did better than other communist countries is clearly because it was more capitalist!

    You have no examples.
     
  2. mykittyhasaboner

    mykittyhasaboner Member

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    yeah, i used wikipedia, because i knew next to nothing specific about north korea before. this proves nothing beyond wikipedia being a convenient source of information. you claim that im making excuses. i am not, why should i be, im merely pointing out that what you said about north korea was wrong.

    ideologically it is the underdog

    im not pretending that none of it happened, i simply have a different perspective than you.

    while a lot may be successful, a lot arent.

    i wasn't talking about oil, inflation affects all goods.

    the US doesn't take natural resources from countries they go to war with? news to me

    thats outrageous, i never said that.

    i gave you examples where democracy was present. saying that i have no examples is stupid. maybe there not good enough examples for you, doesnt mean there not examples.

    i do not wish to argue with you anymore, its obvious that you are a better shit talker, and debater.
     
  3. Hiptastic

    Hiptastic Unhedged

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    Oh I have no objection to you using wiki, I do too. But the more in depth wiki page on North Korea's economy contradicted what you said, clearly the economy was in deep trouble long before the floods and withdrawal of Soviet aid. You are the one who has been proven wrong.
    So what?
    I'm arguing that your perspective is to sweep the bad stuff under the rug.
    CPI in the US is about 4%, this is not runaway inflation, even if you were to ignore that wages also go up.
    Well that's easily resolved, show me what the US took from Iraq, or Serbia, or Somalia, or Afghanistan.
    Well you said the US is creating "MORE" turmoil in Afghanistan, so what did you mean by that? Refugees have returned by the hundreds of thousands, girls are in school, infant mortality is sharply lower, the country has a democratically elected government, yet you seem outraged.
    OK fine they are examples, I consider them pretty weak though. I mean two months in one city more than a century ago? What do you think this proves?
     
  4. Picasso

    Picasso Guest

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    I don't get this left wing idolisation of che. He was in charge of forced labour camps for homosexuals.
     
  5. Mike21484

    Mike21484 Member

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    well...as long as we have world class folks like Che who'd just as soon put a bullet thru your head as look you,(and by the way...I'd say that would pretty much end YOUR efforts to render other techniques of social injustice.)there's gonna be conflicts with real bullets!....Wars hell, no doubt about it...so's cancer, so's a lot of other stuff. Bottom line is, as long as the bad guys who hate us have the means to do bad things to us, they don't really give a shit what 'nice' things we try to do for'em,they're still hell bent on hurting us. At this point, you lay down and die, or fight back. Dosen't get much more complicated than that. Im reminded-true story- of the( pacifist )interviewer who was interviewing two ex military personell. After about 20 minutes of railing at them concerning how they could every defend fighting as a means of settling anything, one of the ex army guys had had enough and suddenly reached across the table and coldcocked the interviewer, at which time the interviewer without thinking came up swinging!..at this point the ex soldier looked at the interviewer and said, "so...you don't really believe all the bullshit you've been saying after all,do you?"....END of interview!
     
  6. Comrade Stalin Guevara

    Comrade Stalin Guevara Member

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    AMERICAN COMPANYS OWN THE IRAQI OIL FIELDS
    THE CIA OWNS AFGHANISTANS POPPY FIELDS
    america is the evil empire,
    its in its last strides onwards to facisim eh Obama
     
  7. Comrade Stalin Guevara

    Comrade Stalin Guevara Member

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    Che is a fucking hero
    people die in war and in class war many die
    have we forgotten the people who died were counter revolutionarys or as america calls them terrorist?

    Same with trotgoat but i dont see him as a hero but i can see why leftist do.
     
  8. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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    Guevara never succeeded in rallying Bolivian peasants to him when he tried a revolution there. During and after the Cuban revolution he was a big fan of capital punishment and liked to participate in executions. He was furious at Khruschev for removing the missiles in 1962. Since at least 90 tactical nuclear weapons had been distributed to Soviet military in Cuba at the time (*) to support 43,000 Soviet troops in Cuba, an American invasion to remove the missile threat might easily have led to use of these weapons on American troops, resulting in an American nuclear counter-attack, and bingo, World War III, started by our friend Ernesto Guevara.

    * McNamara, Robert, In Retrospect, Random House, 1995, pp. 340-341.
     
  9. Psy-astrida

    Psy-astrida Member

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    vivaa laaa cheee guevaraaaaaaa
     
  10. MellowViper

    MellowViper Member

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    I'm on the left, but I don't idolize him. I don't like him at all, or Trotsky or Lenin or Pinochet, or Suharto.
     
  11. kodiestarland

    kodiestarland Guest

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    I'm not a moral absolutist, and I don't reject someone automatically because they have killed. Plus, it's hard to disentangle oneself from murder. If you've supported the establishment in any way in your life, even tacitly, you're probably guilty of murder.
     
  12. darkforest

    darkforest Member

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    I've never ordered a 12 year old boy to be executed like Che did.
     
  13. Rollo Tomasi

    Rollo Tomasi Member

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    So did you with every cigarette you ever smoked. But, did you also help free the Jews from the Tsar's pogroms or help to establish the highest-quality, universal medical care in the Americas for 11 million people?

    Didn't think so.
     
  14. HeartOfEurope

    HeartOfEurope Member

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    Yes, go ahead, idolze revolution you didn't even went through and revolutionist that didn't kill your grandparents. And when some soldier kills your son, just because he's gay, don't forget to blindly repeat your "people die in war".
     
  15. apothecaryvybez

    apothecaryvybez Member

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    speak it brother. those people are unintelligent, follow the leader posers at their best
     
  16. Rollo Tomasi

    Rollo Tomasi Member

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    You've heard of drunk dialing, right?

    This thread is like that.
     
  17. alice_d_millionaire

    alice_d_millionaire Just Do It©

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    i'm thrilled to meet so many people who must have personally known these fellows. i mean, you'd have to know them personally to justify making claims (positive or negative) about the content of their character.

    one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
     
  18. alanwang

    alanwang Guest

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    che was a great man ,he just to fight for freedom and democracy,Che Guevara, born in June 1928 Rosario, Argentina, the legendary Latin American Marxist revolutionaries. He took part in the Cuban revolution led by Fidel Castro overthrew the pro-American Batista dictatorship. After he held a series of senior positions in the Cuban revolutionary government, Guevara left Cuba in 1965 to the Congo (DRC), Bolivia and other countries trying to launch a communist revolution. October 8, 1967, the traitor leak, Che Guevara and the guerrilla squad in the jungle were Bolivian army ambush, arrested Guevara injuries. The next day, Guevara was killed. 's Death, he has been regarded as a symbol of the hero of the international communist movement and leftists. A large number of literary and artistic works about his
     
  19. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

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    It's too bad che went a bit mad.

    It's entirely in response to US policy though, obviously....

    And even if he lost it and did some not-so-nice things, well fuck gwb, for causing the deaths of, at this point, hundreds of thousands of people in the middle east.... Just because he didn't do it personally, only makes him a coward, IMO.

    Che is like if joe biden, in addition to being the vice president, was also general macarthur (you know, "good, then we can kill them in all directions", or whatever he said), a top ranking CIA agent and master of disguise, survival, tactics, and bravery, a fully qualified doctor and motorcycle adventurer, and george fucking washington..... all at the same time. Oh, and then, he would walk away from his office casually, and go underground, so that he might foment more similar revolution. And a jungle-fatigue-wearing globe-trotter the whole while.

    Yeah, things got out of hand..... but he was undeniably heroic at the same time. Not everything is black and white.
     
  20. Sam101

    Sam101 Member

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    I think Che Guevara was very much a victim of circumstance. I have seen a few different documentaries, and it has been suggested he was an easy "fall guy"..

    He truly wanted to help (I think), and wound up being killed because of it, and of course, easier to blame a dead man for everything that went wrong...

    The world needs more people like him.. Willing to help, willing to learn, willing to UNDERSTAND...

    Of course anyone can twist anything they want to suit their own political agenda (or sell T-Shirts)...

    However, we can all take a page out of his book, and stand up for what we believe in.
     

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