Fuck Ché Guevara

There ideals not only made life immesurably worse for those that they assumed they had the right to represent (the so-called "vangaurd of the proletariat", not actually workers, but bourgeois reps), but they KILLED PEOPLE ruthlessely to achieve their aims. That makes them no better than Islamic fundamentalists, or the US government for that matter.

 

Che Guevara had his flaws, I wouldn't hero worship him, but he is an icon, like it or not, and a powerful symbol of resistance. And resist we shall....

 

Great thread. Cuba's suppression of culture has been a great injustice. What a price to pay for so called freedom.

 

The Cuban people are better off then living in a nation with a US puppet goverment like Cuba had before the revolution. Remeber Che knew what happened in Guatemala and knew that if the US ever occupied Cuba again then like Guatemala US backed death sqauds would commit political genocide making a second try impossible as every leftist in Cuba would be dead at the hands of US terrorist.

 

What you mean is Cuba's suppression of economic injustice has been great for its culture. Inequity -- what a pathetic concept of "freedom".

Cubans have seen some hard times. Largely because of the US. But things are getting better in Cuba in spite of the US. The way I see it the US needs to do a lot more worrying about itself and a lot less worrying about Cuba.

Cuba has been there and weathered the storm. For the US the clouds are just gathering.

 

Firstly, don't make the stupid fucking assumption that I think inequity has something to do with freedom just because I condemn Fidel Castro. I am NOT a capitalist just because i don't agree with you.

But I wouldn't trade my right to choose my own sexuality, to engage in artistic expression and worship whatever god i like....for "economic justice". Cuba's harsh utalitarianism was hardly worth the results.

Of course, i don't know a lot about the subject, so if i'm wrong...please provide some facts to prove that Cuba didn't embark on a disgusting rampage to stamp out all forms of excessive forms of culture. Using..death camps

 

Two quotes to keep in mind:

"The meek shall inherit nothing."

"Peace is a very complicated concept. When the lion gobbles up
the lamb and wipes his lips, then there's peace. Well, I ain't
for that peace at all."

Having said that, I think both Trotsky and Che were bad guys, particularly Che. But pacifism is pointless. I for one don't have any love for the pig that beats me. The idea that love can save the world is naive and stupid. Remember what happened (or didn't happen) in the 60s? Haven't we learned anything? There's nothing wrong with love. Love is subversive and revolutionary. But I for one won't relinquish my right to violence against the forces that oppress me. I think standing up is a more effective method than sitting down.

 

Everyone's missing the goddamn point.

I'm not talking about the nature of the revolution. Pacifist or not, what FOLLOWED the revolution was an oppression of homosexuals and artists using death camps.

Too often, when the oppressors are overthrown, the overthrowers become the oppressors. They should hardly be given credit for it.

 

I don't see why an entire nation should be condemned to communist tyranny just to satisfy your teen rebel anti-american fantasies.

Because you would have said the same thing about South Korea or Taiwan 50 years ago. They were despotic American allies, and you would have cheered a communist overthrow. But 50 years later Taiwan and South Korea are democratic, prosperous free nations, whereas Cuba and North Korea and the like have neither freedom nor prosperity.

 

I don't get why people think Capitalist tyranny is better then socialist (yes socialist since Cuba still uses money) tyranny. If there was no Cuban revolution there would be alot more poverty, hunger and disease in Cuba and don't give me that free market crap, look how crappy Mexico is and Cuba doesn't have the national resources to be as industrialized as Mexico.

I admit the Venezuela Bolivarian revolution is better then Cuba's but Venezuelans almost got a US backed dictorship due to their openness so Cuba's paranoia isn't totaly unfounded.

 

Says who? That's what you would have said about Taiwan or Korea. They didn't have revolutions, but their counterparts (North Korea and China) did. Look who's more prosperous, free, and democratic now. Who can say that Cuba wouldn't have turned out like Costa Rica? After all, Cuba was one of the most prosperous and developed Latin Amerian countries until Castro came along and destroyed it.

I would much rather live in Mexico (or Costa Rica, or Chile... ) than Cuba. Maybe you don't rate freedom very highly.

There is no Bolivarian revolution. The oil price went up 500% and Chavez is spending it all and then some. There's nothing new about that. And what sense does it make to have a Russian backed dictatorship for decades so you can escape the horror of democracy?

 

Yhea it was prosperours but only for the rich few everyone else was even poorer then the average cuban now. It is the way capitalism is, the only reason why you don't have such poverty in countries like Canada,US,France,ect is that the people fought capitalism to the point the capitalist gave in enough to prevent mass uprisings. Do you think capitalist give a fuck about you? They are mad they have to pay you so much and they can't make you work in sweatshop conditions and if had their way you'd be their slave.

Freedom for who? Freedom for workers in Mexico is crap

 

Yes but that's the same bullshit you would have said about Taiwan or South Korea at the time. And look how they turned out. Yet somehow we are supposed to believe that capitalist Cuba would have been frozen in time, rather than democratising and developing like so many other Latin American countries.

So it is entirely coincidental that capitalism raises living standards. What a convenient coincidence.

Let me quote Adam Smith:

Smith wrote that in 1776. More than two hundred years later, you are trying to enlighten us that capitalists are out to serve themselves? Guess you're a bit late (only a few centuries).

Its a freedom that Cubans can only dream of under Castro, so why do you look down on it?

 

The capitalist in the USA has made it clear they want brutial dictators in Latin America that suppress worker's rights. US trained and backed death squads kill union leaders in capitalist latin American countries and you dare call this more free then Cuba.

Of course Cubans are not free but capitalism would be a step backwards not a step forward.

Your just counting the nations where workers have successfully gained ground aginst capitalist, look at the ex-soviet union where proverty, unemployment and inequality shot right up after capitalism took over.

Yes getting killed by US death squads for orginaizing a labour movement is so much better.

 

And which Latin American countries are run by brutal dictators right now? None. So if that's what the US wanted, they have failed completely. Only Cuba has a dictatorship, so you are a supporter of Latin America's last surviving dictatorship.

Why, because glorious socialist poverty is so much more fun? If Canada were to eliminate all political parties except one, and have the government take over the media, restrict freedom of movement, religion, and speech, and have a dictator for life, but reduced unemployment, would you be in the streets dancing? What is it about you that you have such contempt for the freedom of others?

If the workers were "taking" something from the capitalists, then why do capitalist countries have richer capitalists and workers? Your theory is made up bullshit based on nothing other than the fact that it is convenient.

Most of the former Soviet bloc is prospering, e.g Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, the Baltics, Slovenia, Croatia, etc. Even Russia is bouncing back with amazing speed after its painful transition.


And what is the record of communism? The Czech Republic, one of the richest nations in Europe before 1945, was one of the poorest after 50 years of communism. Yet barely a decade after capitalism returns, you have condemned it as a failure. Stop promoting economic suicide.

 

Yeah ask a Canadian who could go tree planting for one season and then afford to backpack around Latin America all summer how much spirit he has sacrificed to escape his police state.


Its so edgy and cool to pretend to be oppressed.

 

I still say.........

Socialism is good.

But tyrrany under ANY from of government is bad. I really think people don't get the point. If I was part of a socialist group bent on revolutionising Australia who idolised castro...I'd tell them to calm the fuck down and think about WHAT we're fighting for. I don't think a substantial level of freedom under socialism is impossible...this is the dictatorial myth.

 

It's not freedom one ultimately wants it's satisfaction. And not just satisfaction but ongoing satisfaction.

And morally it's reprehensible to give more to those who already have more and less to those who have less.

 

If Che is so bad, why is he a market icon? Companies make millions using his image.

 

If David Hasselhof sucks, then why do people buy his CDs?