Freedom is not safe

From what I have seen, we should take all the Guatemalans they will send us! They are really cool. But they should have documents. They should not be exploited.

As for Cold War antics, these interventionist policies would not have happened under a Libertarian government.

 

No, it was me.

You know some interesting people. Since we didn't know them, we are left scratching our heads trying to figure out how and why they happened. The kid who read Shakespeare and had just about all the plays memorized. How did he get the books? Was either parent a Shakespeare buff? One can certainly develop an impressive vocabulary that way, but might find it difficult to use in most social circles. Words like accite, bisson, brickle, cypress (gauze), end (gather in harvest), gent (graceful), grin (a snare), hent, makesport, neeze, nesh, pink (small), rear (half-cooked), terrestrious, and uneath have pretty much gone out of style, so the poor kid must have had a hard time on the dating scene. And how much of what he read did he understand accurately. When Shakespeare told him “Security is mortals chiefest enemy.” MacBeth, act 3,sc. 5, l. 32. Those words might be taken as support for the anti-maskers, but Hecate is telling the witches that overconfidence or a feeling of being invincible is humans' greatest weakness. It was not uncommon in past centuries for people to read only the Bible and to consider themselves educated--a manifestation of what we call today the Duning-Kruger effect: ignorant people not realizing they're ignorant. Just yesterday, I had somebody ask me if I believed Jesus was the "only begotten Son" of God, cuz it says right here in John 1:14 & 18 and 3:16. Not exactly. I says μονογενής, ές (monogenes), which can mean "only begotten" or unique. In context, I thing unique is the better translation--avoiding problematic theological controversies. Most modern biblical translations agree with me, but a few use the older "only begotten". Somebody who knew only the English text of the Bible might not know that. Can anyone really understand Genesis without knowing something of the Enuma Elish and the Gilgamesh epic?

As for your American hermit in Germany, one can certainly learn a lot from reading the Encyclopedia Britannica cover-to-cover, especially if her parents invested in the updates. She may have too narrow a view of education. though, which involves more than just book larnin'. Academically, many American high schools are wastelands, but an important part of our socialization. Whatever became of the young man and the young lady? Did they ever learn to adjust?

 

Cello

Yet you begin the thread with a quote from Ron Paul?

You do realise that he was a fervent supporter of the John Birch Society which is an ultraconservative right wing and anti-communist organisation (it believes President Eisenhower was too communist – and wanted to repeal civil rights legislation, which it sees as being Communist in inspiration). They were very much in favour of those Cold War antics and interventionist policies.

Ron Paul said of them "The John Birch Society is a great patriotic organization featuring an educational program solidly based on constitutional principles. I congratulate the Society in this, its 50th year. I wish them continued success and endorse their untiring efforts to foster 'less government, more responsibility ... and with God's help ... a better world.'"

And he’s on records as saying that he doesn’t know how many positions they would have that he wouldn’t agree with.

*

But you still have not answered the question – if the US doesn’t want so many Guatemalan migrants wouldn’t it be a good idea in putting in the effort to make Guatemala a better place to live in, especially since it is in large parts the reason why it is so bad?

I mean you say it wouldn’t have happened – but sorry it did.

 

Cello

Again you are not answering the question – again I ask send them home to what?

So you just let people out of the criminal justice system and they are back out into poverty and hardship – into a system where you want healthcare, welfare, education, training, etc to be self-financed or paid for by voluntary contributions?

It seems to me you clearly have not thought this through

I mean to me the high levels of incarceration in the US are in large part a symptom of poverty and discrimination not the cause

So again I ask what policies you would you have to tackle the root causes of poverty?

 

Cello

Sorry but this doesn’t actually answer my question

So you do favour allowing migrants in legally and giving working migrants legal status?

 

Cello

Actually, many have argued that the problem with the US education system is that it is too local

The other thing that sets America apart from Europe, Ms. Jacoby argues, is this country’s insistence on local control of schools, which means that “children in the poorest areas of the country would have the worst school facilities and teachers with the worst training” and that “the content of education in the most backward areas of the country would be determined by backward people.”

“In Europe,” she writes, “the subject matter of science and history lessons taught to children in all publicly supported schools has always been determined by highly educated employees of central education ministries. In America the image of an educated elite laying down national guidelines for schools was and is a bête noire for those who consider local control of education a right almost as sacred as any of the rights enumerated in the Constitution.”

The ignorance resulting from the absence of national education standards, combined with the resurgent anti-intellectualism now abroad in the land, Ms. Jacoby concludes in this useful if less than electrifying volume, is dangerous for any country, but especially dangerous for a democracy. As Thomas Jefferson once wrote, “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” New York Times review of The American age of unreason.

Can you please explain your thinking I’m unsure what point you are trying to make?

What and whose intolerance are you talking about?

Again not sure what is your point here – you want education to be dependent on dubious wealthy individuals? As you say Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner and Andrew Carnegie exploited his workers – I mean didn’t you say you are opposed to exploitation?

Again not sure what your point is – in what way was the Appalachian guy astonished at the ignorance of others – their ignorance of Shakespeare well of course but did he have a rounded knowledge of the sciences, maths, history (you do know Shakespeare historical plays are propaganda) etc.

I knew someone that knew all about birds but his family was religious and so he was taught not to believe in evolution and that the world was only a few thousand years old.

I mean we are all ignorant in our own ways, in fact ignorance isn’t a crime it can be a good thing, knowledge of one’s ignorance it often the spur to learning, the thing is that people can hijack that learning and fill people with ignorance – that is why it should be supervised in a public and open way.

As to the person in Germany they would have probably been better off learning German.

If anything, you make my point for me.

 

Cello

So you are in favour of taxation especially for the higher wealth brackets?

Sorry but haven’t you already confirmed that such a ‘voluntary’ system would mean the wealthier would get away with not contributing as much?

Also as many have pointed out types of Sales Taxes are regressive taxation not progressive meaning that again they favour the wealthier over everyone else

Sales tax is considered regressive because people with low incomes are affected more than those with higher incomes from the tax that comes with the purchase. The result is that low-income earners pay a higher percentage of their income on sales tax.

Why do you seem to want to protect the more wealthy and powerful in society?

 

Cello

But that is the point it doesn’t have to be, why are you claiming it ‘has to be’ when it doesn’t?

Well I’d first point out that humans don’t live in a state of nature – a bear shits in the wood – as would humans - but most Americans don’t live in woods and instead they have potty training, toilets, sewage systems treatment plants along with laws and regulations pertaining to health and sanitation.

Do wolves write laws and constitutions do they have judges and police to enforce the laws?

Is it possible for humans to decide what is the best cause of action concerning say taxation and then bring that about, I’d say yes, why are you saying no?

Again, you seem to want to protect the more wealthy and powerful in society?

Really not sure what your argument is here?

Why does having a rational and reasonable taxation system mean you can’t listen to Handel?

My vision for the future like many lefties is for a place where people can live healthy, prosperous lives and everyone can fulfil their potential. And the policies and ideas I often talk about explain and promote are about bringing that vision about such as universal healthcare, welfare, education, training, and a new green deal amongst others.

What is yours and what policies do you think will bring it about?

 

You want to be fair?
Is fairness a priority?
Then hold everyone to the same standards and rules, and make the punishments for the same infractions the same for everybody.

But fairness is just a buzzword. Everyone has their favorites.

 

Forestry is awesome but we're talking about a different world today.
Today the liberal artists are teaching that you're either an oppressor, or oppressed. Superior or subordinate. Asshole or idiot.
It's a divisionary tactic disguised as educating.
It's been well documented that in order to spark a revolution, the first step is division. Historically that's been aimed at the haves and have nots. That's not so effective in America now since anybody who strives to can attain a happy enough level of have. But convince people they should be ashamed of their roots or that they've been victimized by easily identifiable others within your society and you have a nice wedge to hammer on.

 

Trug

Oh please you’re not going to go off on your ‘life isn’t fair’ crap again are you LOL

I know the mad right are making a big song and dance about this but can you actually back it up?

Can you supply this documentation?

Actually historically I'd argue its been more about race and religion

A case in point would be type of white supremacists who while been racist about non-whites also claims they are the victims of racism for been white?

Or the German Nazis who claimed the German people where the victims of Jewish conspiracies?

Or the Trump supporters that are told (and believe) they were the victims of a liberal conspiracy that ‘stole the election’?

Or the type of right wingers that claims liberals are trying to teach people that you're either an oppressor, or oppressed. Superior or subordinate. Asshole or idiot as a way of attacking their political opponents and smearing them with lies because they haven’t got anything rational or of worth to contribute?

 

But what do you really believe?
You didn't answer my question!
Again...

It doesn't stop. It's like talking to a computer, programmed to a narrative. I don't believe it's possible to break through the fog, but I'd love to be proven wrong about that.

You see, with some your good points are never recognized. Instead, minutia is sought in hopes of trapping you and categorizing you into some group they can label as dismissible. And they only need one thing, such as you liked what some person said or what some group aspired to do, and viola -- yer one o'them. Ridicule is the tactic, and division is the goal.

They entrust politicians to come up with solutions to what they consider problems. And most of the problems are invented or augmented to disguise some political agenda. An agenda often rooted in envy. First world problems on steroids.

 

Hi Balbs!

Are you really interested? I don't see it. What I see is you just want to try to obfuscate what's happening. Back it up? Documentation? Either you're completely out of touch, or you support the division and subterfuge. Which is it?

If you're truly in a bubble, search around and see what opponents are saying about the precepts of critical race theory. I don't know how you're not seeing it, I see it frequently.

There's no real danger in adopting a more informed position. Unless you're afraid all your "friends" will disown you. But you might get better friends.

 

Trud

And your argument is what…..?

What are the invented problems?

LOL - Things like right wingers claiming liberals were involved in some conspiracy to seal the election from Trump or that critical race theory is somehow a bigger threat to democracy and the world than voter suppression and climate change?

Oh please spare us your crocodile tears

 

Trudge

Oh I’m interested but LOL you are clearly not interested in debating honestly

 

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." Anatole France (16 April 1844 – 12 October 1924)

 

Fascinating. Like so many of your posts, this is a classic illustration of the phenomenon psychologists call projection. If you had perspective on reality, you'd realize that just about everything you say here about Balbus applies to yourself, in spades!

 

Same old same old...

Sorry Tish, only those on the left side of the distribution curve will give any credence to that response. And that's only because they wish it were so. But all this politics of envy... What ever happened to live and let live? Too much time on our hands?

 

What is the distribution curve?