Freedom From Atheism

Oh so now that you can't escape the fact that Buddhism is a Religion you are suddenly twisting your words around? I can dig up a post where you specifically say that many New Atheists aren't trying to get rid of Religious people, but just Religion itself (which is itself attempting to get rid of Religious people, and is an ideological Genocide).

And so you are admitting then that there is a certain Atheist agenda?

And Atheists are once again being hypocritical, as Atheism doesn't escape the realm of faith-based thinking! You have faith that since you can't see it, that it doesn't exist. YOU DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW FOR CERTAIN. ​You just can't admit that you don't know, which is the difference and always will be the difference between an Atheist and an Agnostic. Instead, Atheism is making an assertion based on an​ existential belief.

 

"In the beginning, there was only man and nature -- men came bearing crosses and drove the heathen to the fringes of the earth."


~Valhalla rising

 

Heathen usually translates to Pagan or someone not following a major Religion, not necessarily a free thinker. A Gnostic is also probably considered a Heathen, not to mention an Alchemist.

If you're really a free thinker then why are you trying to create the same genocide that Christians have already done?

 

Ignore list you go

 

Did the same thing many weeks ago, best decision I ever made on these forums.

 

I would agree. Heathen is usually equated with Pagan or other fringe movements.

 

So do you feel that God and Mythology are interwoven in any way? What's the difference between History and Myth?

 

Once I discovered I am a fantastical story to those I have
selflessly revealed myself . I didn't think I'd ever said anything
to lead them on . In reflection , I suppose I present myself
neither by a recitation of my history nor as a self-devised myth .

My identity is not to
be manipulated by reason .

Only a manipulative imposer of reality would do that .

 

It's the difference between Logos and Mythos. History is: (1) what actually happened in the past and (2) human efforts to figure it out through scholarly study of available documents and evidence. More authoritatively :

1. 
   history(noun)
   the aggregate of past events
   "a critical time in the school's history"
   
2. 
   history, account, chronicle, story(noun)
   a record or narrative description of past events
   "a history of France"; "he gave an inaccurate account of the plot to kill the president"; "the story of exposure to lead"
   
3. 
   history(noun)
   the discipline that records and interprets past events involving human beings
   "he teaches Medieval history"; "history takes the long view"
   
4. 
   history(noun)
   the continuum of events occurring in succession leading from the past to the present and even into the future
   "all of human history"
   
5. 
   history(noun)
   all that is remembered of the past as preserved in writing; a body of knowledge
   "the dawn of recorded history"; "from the beginning of history"
   

History, like a scientific theory, can be false, but that would be because of incomplete data or an incorrect inference from the available data.

Myth, on the other hand, Webster tells us is "a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature". According to the late mythologist Joseph Campbell, a myth is a metaphor designed to convey dramatically by allegory basic truths that are inadequately understood by literal, factual description. as Karen Armstrong puts it, Mythos is about the more difficult aspects of our humanity, for which there were no easy answers. Like the fact that we get sick, that there are all kinds of questions about suffering and pain that concern us

My problem with Theoprodu's criticism of God is that it seems to be confusing history (i.e., factual reality) with myth. Why did God drown all those people, kill all those Canaanites, sick a she bear on those mouthy kids, condone slavery or bashing babies against walls, etc.? AnswerS)he didn't. Those things never happened. They are myths, expressing the sentiments of humans at particular times in history. Those particular sentiments are ugly. Others, however, are quite powerful, especially the stirring words of the prophets about social justice and treatment of the poor and unfortunate. Even Leviticus, best known today for its fussy dietary rules and condemnation of "men who lie with men", contains lengthy, largely forgotten passages about justice that are worth remembering: “You shall love the stranger as yourself,”“The wages of a laborer shall not remain with you until morning.”“You shall not curse the deaf or place a stumbling block before the blind.”“You shall not stand idly by while your neighbor’s blood is shed.”“You shall not go about as a talebearer among your people.”“Do not hate your brother in your heart.”“Do not take revenge or bear a grudge.”“You shall not reap the corners of your vinyard, but rather leave them for the poor.”“You shall respect the elderly.”“You shall use honest weights and measures.”
“In judging a dispute, you shall not show undue favoritism for the poor or the rich.” These things can't be proven, but they appeal to the moral sense of humans. I'd hate to throw them out just because some fundamentalists and atheists can't separate Logos from Mythos.

And yes, I believe that history and mythology are often interwoven. Flood myths are found in cultures all over the world, and they typically involve divine intervention.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths This may reflect the fact that so many early civilizations grew up around water, and floods are a common natural phenomenon. Especially in Mesopotamia, the waters of the Tigris and Euphrates River were prone to unpredictable flooding, and that's where the Noah story seems to have come from. For a scientific explanation, see http://ncse.com/rncse/29/5/yes-noahs-flood-may-have-happened-not-over-whole-earth
Exodus and Joshua's conquest of Canaan seem to be historical fiction. Modern archaeologists think the Israelites were mostly Canaanites who took to the hills to escape internal strife, although there are some indications that some of them were escapees from Egypt. But there are details that suggest some factual basis for the events.

 

Oh there's no confusion. I know it's all myth. My criticism is of how god is depicted, and of those that don't teach the god of the old testament as myth.

Young kids don't need that kind of nightmare shit planted in their heads, though it works pretty well at keeping them secretly fearful of gods wrath. Sometimes well into adulthood, even though their rational brain tells them it's nuts. So we have a lot of religious people running around with this conflict in their minds. Catholics are especially susceptible, in my experience. I grew up around lots of Catholics.

 

Nah! I'd say it's fundamentalist Protestants that are especially susceptible, since they believe that the Bible is the only source by which God reveals His will. Catholics believe in natural law, and the final authority of the Church to say what's to be taken literally. Historically, Catholics were much less inclined to encourage lay individuals to read the Bible (since those individuals might develop their own "incorrect" interpretations). You grew up around lots of Catholics. I was one, in a Catholic family, and neither I nor anybody else in my family heard of much of the stuff you're bothered about, because we never read the Bible. I didn't do that until I became a Protestant. If my parents did, I'm sure they wouldn't take it literally, or would they'd have dismissed it as a bunch of nonsense. It's incredible to me that otherwise intelligent people can take it literally. There are lots of Christians who grow up with a positive attitude toward God as a just and loving Being--maybe because their parents also have a healthy view of religion and use it to inspire and comfort their kids, not to scare them. But you're right--some don't. Religion can be a mind-crippling disease, and the Bible gives plenty of ammunition for those who want to spread that. I knew an atheist once who grew up in a church that put a lot of emphasis on demons. She even thought she had confirmation of them, because she often saw them by her bed as she was falling asleep or just waking up. It took awhile before she came to the realization that they were hallucinations accompanying sleep paralysis.There was a guy on here a few years ago who thought Satan must have made him because he was "born that way." I remember thinking to myself "Where is Richard Dawkins when you really need him? Some people are better off without religion. That's why God gave us atheism.

 

The rational who fear the irrational will protect themselves , even to engage in conflict . Those who are at peace
receive protection as a grace . The peace I speak of could be irrational to a self-appointed rational person .

To be free of self-appointed rational people would be nice - but not a necessity .

I was listening in on a couple Catholic priests the other day at the coffee shop . They are quite busy with
reasoning . Don't listen , children , its cruelly boring . Suffer no more . Abolish punishment .

 

Don't be so quick to throw the idea around that a myth is a fabled old story. A lot of truth exists behind the guise of a myth.

 

I'd say some of the most profound truths are communicated most effectively via myth. I owe my Christian faith to passages in Genesis that I regard as entirely mythical.

 

:iagree:

 

I think that part of what's wrong with the modern secular world is that people lack myths, or the ones they have tend to be superficial semi-myth like 'Star Wars'.

Part of the reason for that is that the truths and meanings contained in myths are often not that accessible to the rational intellect. So the rationalist discards myths, and their world is all the poorer for it.

 

Or at least you've found a way to feel superior to the rationalist.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyKAr-gxxFE#t=92


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