Free Will Has Limits

I'm not sure I would say free will has limits as such but bad choices with your free will can quickly end in death and I would say that would be somewhat limiting... ;-)

 

Free will doesn't really exist

 

Chesterton's fence: before you tear down a fence, it's best to find out why it was put up in the first place.

 

Always a good idea but I'm not sure what "fence" you think I'm tearing down...

 

You seemed to be cautioning against making potentially lethal choices with free will.

Chesterton expressed this concept as a "fence." What some perceive as a fence keeping them confined might have been constructed for their own safety.

Imagine a group a kids playing on an island. The island is surrounded on all sides by a dangerous cliff, but a fence has been constructed to keep them from falling to their deaths. Since the danger of death has been removed, the kids can have all the fun they want on the island, without worrying about being killed. As long as they stay inside the fence, they can run and play and throw their frisbees and have a great time.

After awhile, they tire of having this fence confining them within. They want to be free, so they tear it down. Fatal accidents start to occur. The kids become frightened of the edge of the cliff and they stop playing so much. They have to be careful. They are scared and they huddle in the center of the island away from the edge. They become less happy and less free than they were before they removed the fence.

 

The problem with that argument is that you have communities all over the world that grew up near cliffs without fences. I'm sure the parents taught the kids not to go too close to the edge or you would fall down and die. The people do not live in fear of the cliff and probably even visit it to enjoy the views it provides. In this sense it is probably better that no fence is ever built.

 

If God gave us free will and then placed limits on it, then he did not give us free will, but the illusion of free will.

If God didn't give us free will, then how can we be responsible for the bad things we have done. How can God punish me for something bad that I did when, if there are limits to my control over my own will, then the devil can influence me without my having a choice in the matter. If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, then it is all just a big Catch-22 with many of us destined to go to Hell. We will be punished, potentially in this life, if we commit crimes or evil against the State, and then in the afterlife. It is all predetermined by God, being that he is all-knowing.

Certainly God can intervene in anybody's life and save them. But if free will is limited, then the choice here is limited as well. God can choose who to save, and who to damn, and ultimately we have no true choice in the matter. So we must ask, why didn't God intervene in everyone's life? Take Hitler for example, he would have had to have operated under the limits that everyone has. His own freedom of choice in the actions he performed must then be questioned. God could have intervened and prevented the holocaust and World War II, and so forth, especially since he would have known all the horrible evil that was to be unleashed through Hitler and the forces around him. Hitler did not ultimately have free will in what he did, if you are saying that God limits free will. Therefore Hitler is being punished for all eternity over something that he did not 'freely' choose to do, and he is being punished because God failed to intervene in his life.

So now we could ask, where does the true responsibility for World War II and the holocause actually lie?

 

When we no longer bother making clear distinctions between who we are and what we are doing, we become more aware of the world around us and, thus, more free. The more you insist that only God, shooting heroin, or the Teletubbies can grant you freedom, the less free your mind becomes. Freedom is our fate, and it ain't free so, Get Over It Already!

 

Steer me to those teaching techniques, man! I'm always worried about the under-sixes running into the street. To me a fence between little children and danger is Peace of Mind.

 

I have consulted the ancient texts on this. First you need to teach your kids about death, and for this you need to book a safari in Africa. Hire a competent guide and make sure he teaches you how to return to base safely in the event something should happen to him. Now the next part is tricky. Its probably best to slip him a sleeping pill, and then as he sleeps, coat him with raw meat and blood. I slaughtered a goat right there, but you can find rodents and all kinds of things to use in the Bush.

The next morning, if he is groggy enough, you can set it up so that he thinks he has to protect you and is completely unaware that he is the Mark. The smell of meat and blood should have attracted a number of big game predators. Make sure your kids are up and ready to watch the attack and devouring. They may want to turn away or even run, but don't let them, because 1.) its part of the process, and 2.) I have found that running children in front of big game predators quickly become the next kill. the animals seem to enjoy it. Its best they just sit and watch from the vehicle you trekked in on.

This may seem shocking and frightening to a 3-year old or a 5-year old. But if you make it into an annual event, the children will grow to like it and even look forward to it. That's when you know that it is no longer a psychological hang-up for them. The nightmares stop and they see death as a natural part of the circle of life. In later years it is a fine opportunity to teach anatomy and the medical realities of death. ("See children, how he released his bowels? This signifies how he has undergone a system wide loss of bodily control. Also notice the muscle tremors that have overtaken what is left of his body. At this level of trauma his dying brain is reacting by sending uncontrolled electrical impulses through his nerves and... Oh! there it is, his spleen--see that? Right under his liver!)

The next step is to associate the roadway with death. Now the laws are a little different here in our country and law enforcement is more thorough and investigative. So what you want to do here is get them a dog and let them raise it and care for it. Try to program the dog to have a favorite toy to play with--a ball is ideal. Next...



Follow me for more helpful tips on raising children---such as How to transition a 14-year old into adulthood with a couple of peyote buttons out in the middle of the Sonoran Desert under the illusion that he/she was abandoned.

 

(OK, seriously, there is a time for fences, but at some time in their development they need to open the gate and go out...)

 

I remember that one!

 

Fences? I never said anything about fences... all I said was God didn't put any limits on free will, you can choose to do whatever you want but choices all come with consequences, good choices good consequences, bad choices bad consequences. Like I said choosing to jump off a cliff to your death tends to put a limit on your use of free will but you are free to choose it if you want.

 

Like I said God DIDN'T put limits on free will we can make any choice we want but if we use free will to end our life it's us who has put a limit on our free will not God.

 

A newborn infant that is not held and loved within the first few days is less likely to ever reproduce, and more like to die within the first year from what is known as a "Failure to thrive". It doesn't matter if you feed them and wash their diapers, they must be held and loved. Dying is never an option, it is living that is our only real choice.

 

its not so much limits as that other things happen. we don't control the universe. we're not gods. so we don't get to choose everything. but it is on us, what is up to us.
and the same no matter how many gods there are or not. its not about being judged, its just how things work. and it works statistically, which is why it isn't obvious.