Free will does not exist

Discussion in 'Existentialism' started by cybergenesis, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. JackFlash

    JackFlash Senior Member

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    Space and time are experiential, and thus, ever changing. When I'm happy time files, when sad time drags.

    I can never perceive the Other as it perceives itself, therefore the Other is never in Me, only my perception (construct) of it.

    Free Will exists only to the extent of the choices I perceive. Since perception is limited, so is Free Will.

    I can never truly be with the Other, only my perception of it, and The Will is only an illusion.

    There is no True Community, only individuals with a perception of Community.

    Fox Mulder was wrong....We are alone.
     
  2. sathead

    sathead Banned

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    That's effort which is either Sad or Happy depending upon the state of being recognized OR belonging Objectively to the determination at Conscience. And conscience is the recovery... bla, bla.

    Thanx anyway.
     
  3. sathead

    sathead Banned

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    Is the desire to fight one's own bad faith Existential? If not, then does bad faith better adjusted for the Slave or the Master; better for the bonded or the lording? Political correctness form the Clinton era.
     
  4. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    No, and because not, it is not a functional adjustment at all.
     
  5. sathead

    sathead Banned

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    Hey, the dope, do you by any chance get in touch with Gwenny of the IRA? Good one: I deserved a D. for effort though. Yaaa...ah, that's what it was: we are waiting for St. Patty's Day.
     
  6. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    if free will did not exist you wouldn't be able to fight anything.
    this is, or ought to be, a logical obviousness.
     
  7. JackFlash

    JackFlash Senior Member

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    Free will has nothing to do with your ability to fight. Free Will is your ability to make an independent choice on whether or not to fight in any given situation. Your choice is dependent on all of your previous experiences from birth. You did not choose to be born, your parents who gave you your first lessons on values, the first schools you attended, etc. Your personality and values were not chosen by you, therefore the choices you make are not independent from your earlier experiences.
     
  8. sathead

    sathead Banned

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    Being as such Free Will can agree with determinism. Some power above us, the supreme Being, disposes US with the condition of our freedom to choose, and therefore it makes for the freedom to Change those conditions. The fact which is hard to swallow is that are these conditions existent to the last detail, as it were, physically, OR are we conditioned by the understanding other poeple have with and against US? Indeterminism makes the challenge of People or Things uncertain,

    and actually I stand corrected that indeterminism may actually entail Fatalism of the Other being a facile refusal for Justice, or something. And determinism is the perpetual frustration defining Will into Freedom.:eek::coffee:


    So thedope what would be the point of indeterminism you respect, is to put into question the meaning of spiritual expectation for defining oneself for OR against the dialectic of Justice and Equality,
     
  9. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    There is one will, free to all, that, to be. There is no opposing will. All seeming points of contention are but harmonious arrangements in which every constituent has their say. Only illusion requires defense and if you suggest that a man is free, he will most often demand he be imprisoned. The temptation that punishes, is that illusion be real.
     
  10. sathead

    sathead Banned

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    Thank you; are you following a system or are you analyzing the truth about reality for the world that holistically gets perceived onto the subjects of health and arty concerns? I fail it a lot now to Know whether Which issue is the issue of Involvement. Seriously...
     
  11. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    It is straight from my affinity for all things. Having said that, I have also seen and heard things, systems revealed through observation. To have all, give all to all.
     
  12. sathead

    sathead Banned

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    Well your System of Allness might as well be a lined group of pop bottles standing on the the shelf in a Supermarket.
     
  13. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    It takes all kinds.
     
  14. LovePeaceMusic

    LovePeaceMusic Member

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    I am nothing like my parents. I do not hold any of the same views as them, or anyone else in my family for that matter. :)

    I chose to explore the world and how the decisions I make affect it, and I broke free of a lot of what my parents taught me. My personality has been influenced by where I've been led by a completely internal, personal desire think for myself and not to flock with the masses.

    It's from this that I conclude that free will does in fact exist. A lot of the conclusions I've drawn about life I've drawn completely independantly of the opinions of other people.

    I can assure you that I did indeed choose my values. :D I struggle to find anyone who holds even vaguely similar values to my own.
     
  15. def zeppelin

    def zeppelin All connected

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    I think our free will comes down to what we choose to become aware of
     
  16. moondrizzle

    moondrizzle Member

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    Of course free will exists! But people do not have the freedom to practice free will without unfair consequences in most cases.
     
  17. Emanresu

    Emanresu Member

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    Free will is impossible. It is incompatible with determinism and indeterminacy, so no matter how the universe operates we cannot have free will.

    If determinism is true then my actions, choices, and character are the necessary result of the past and the laws of nature.

    If determinism is false then my actions are not determined by anything, including myself in particular.

    You may think that you chose your character but many of the events that shape a person's character take place in the prenatal environment and infancy. Also, when you are engaged in decision making, though you may be 'free' to choose between a number of alternatives, the physical system doing the deciding (your brain) is not a product of your design, nor are the laws under which it operates. You may be free to pursue things based on your motivations, but you are not free to choose what motivates you.
     
  18. LovePeaceMusic

    LovePeaceMusic Member

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    Of course things INFLUENCE my choices. For example:

    There is a piece of cake in front of me. It is my choice as to whether or not I will eat it, on the most basic level of decision-making in this situation. I am, of course, influenced by my past experiences (whether I have eaten cake before and if so, whether I enjoyed the resulting sensations), my natural human instincts (assuming I felt hungry, I would be motivated to eat the cake), and moral judgments (if the cake belonged to my friend rather than me, I would most likely decide that it would be morally wrong to eat the cake). Furthermore, assuming I enjoyed cake in the past, I was hungry, and the cake belonged to me, I could still decide not to eat the cake as the result of another influence, e.g. the desire to turn the TV on right away so I didn't miss the beginning of my favourite show.

    But do we not, however, choose between these influences? Does one of these influences not overrule the others in my mind? The reasoning for the TV programme overruling the eating of the cake is, of course, down to desire. But without desire, there would be no will at all, because desire is what makes a human being require the need to choose, no?
     
  19. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    The will can be demonstrated to be identical in all species. That nothing is required of the individual for admittance, constitutes it's "free" nature.
     

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