Free market = plutocratic tyranny.

Anyone else here feel as tho I have been evasive towards them?

 

At least he's doing his job...




Sorta...

 

The problem, Balbus, is that you are a complete troll. Very few people want to waste their time debating with someone who is arrogant, condescending, lecturing, pedantic, sneering, and patronising. Not to mention boring.

In fact you have probably done more than anyone here to convince people that "the left" and socialism are about a big, bullying, controlling, lecturing, and patronising government that decides for the citizens what is best for them and them forces them to take it.

And I thank you for that.

 

I find Mother has a lot of constructive material to contribute to discussions. Balbus you on the other hand just tend to end discussions or drag them out to the fringes.

 

I’m sorry that supports of it seem unable to defend free market ideas from criticism.

And I know that many in that situation think that turning on the messengers will somehow eradicate the message.

But again I’m sorry it doesn’t work – the criticisms if unaddressed still remain

I mean why not prove me wrong, why not refute my words, undermine my position, bring my arguments tumbling down?

Wouldn’t that be the way to ‘teach me a lesson’ because actually all this rather bitter heckling from free market supporters only highlights the fact that they seem unable to do it.

 

Once again Balbus you seem unable to do anything other than berate your critics and praise youself.

If you have any useful arguments to make, why not make them instead of trying to drown us out with half baked polemic?

I mean I never got Rat to admit his conspiray theories were nuts, even when I could prove conclusively that they were full of crap. But because Rat never admitted he was wrong, he considers this the same thing as being right.

Debating with you is much the same. You think that you have this special right to approve or reject arguments, and the authority to declare yourself the winner. If everyone here thinks your definition of 'right wing' makes no sense, well then everyone here is wrong and we need to convince you.

But the thing is we don't. I don't feel any particular need to convince you of anything.

You are just another troll.

 

To me any move toward free market principles strengthens the hands of wealth and if that route continues to be taken wealth gets strong enough to corrupt the system to its own wishes.

To me the ‘free market’ model always seemed like a lie, a con game meant to fool the gullible. This was because it proponents seem to be claiming that they were a complete model that could deal with boom or bust, when in fact it wasn’t anything of the sort, it was in fact not even half a model, it wasn’t very good in boom times (except for wealth) and didn’t have anyway of dealing with busts.

That is why when the neo-liberal model inevitably fails Keynesian ideas are brushed off and used. All the supposed supporters of neo-liberal ideas like Nixon, Reagan, Bush and many others all turned to Keynesian ideas when the free market ones failed.

So you end up with the untenable – Keynesian ideas in the low periods meaning the general population pays for the recovery and neo-liberal ideas in the up time which not only create the conditions for a down turn to happen but also means that wealth gains the profits and the general population gain little.

So why did such a bad model gain prominence?

It was funded and promoted. It opponents failures were screamed loudly its own failures were white washed over or spinned to look like others failures (the old chestnut being that failure was due to the system not being ‘free’ enough) while even the tiniest success on its part were trumpeted as a triumphs.

(see ‘A brief history of neoliberalism’ or ‘The shock doctrine’ for more details)

Now some argue that some strands of ‘free market’ thinking were always about creating a corporatist system but others are pure. But that doesn’t seem to fit in with the history and it certainly doesn’t explain why there are still many on the right who cling passionately to free market ideas.

I think many people became corrupted along the way just as the system was, but the problem wasn’t the type of ‘free market’ solution; it was the free market solution.

Because all free market systems favour wealth, the freer a ‘market system’ becomes the more wealth takes over power until a tipping point is reached and that’s when wealth re-orders things to its own interests and if left unchecked forms a tyranny of the wealthy.

So in fact there never has been a totally and completely ‘free market’ because long before that could be achieved wealth has taken over and taken control, subverting the levers of government to do its bidding.

As observed in ‘The Predator State’ by James K. Galbraith about wealth’s recent behaviour

Now wealth and it’s cronies still claim that a ‘free market’ is what they want and what would ‘really make things work’ properly. For example one only has to look at all those well financed free market think tanks and well paid lobbyists still out there and unbelievably still being listened to and taken seriously even when what they have been claiming for has only ever resulted in wealth becoming more wealthy and powerful and the supposed ‘freer’ system coming more under there control and corrupted to their interests.

The mirage of a real ‘free market’ is a trap set up by wealth to ensnare the gullible.

Because take that road and long before the destination is ever reached the real drivers take a fork to somewhere completely different.

 

Hipstatic

Ok can you give up the faux bitching and please point out what you don’t understand?

 

Utterly impossible. No, you prove yourself wrong. You undermine your own position. You will never learn. Everyone here is sick of you. Nobody wants to address your criticisms any more. I don't think anybody even really wants to read your rants any more or bother addressing them. I know I am bored to death by them and if there were any way I could USE the ignore feature to make you DISAPPEAR I would. But You, by buying your way into mod status, are inescapable. We are all being held hostage by you unless we choose to leave. Do you really WANT to run us all off? Just so you can be right? Well, I doubt any of us HARD CORES are actually going anywhere. Why don't you just go someplace on a DIFFERENT political forum where you actually have more in common with ALL the other posters? Surely you can see that you seem to be on the WRONG side of the tracks here. WHO on this forum actually AGREES with you? And again, does anyone else think I am evasive?
Not yet? :beatdeadhorse5:

 

Earthmother

And your argument to back that up is what?

And you argument to back that up is what?

*

If you notice the people who are most upset with me are the ones that are the most unwilling to defend there ideas or don’t like me highlighting stuff that they’d rather wasn’t highlighted.

You don’t like it when I highlight that your stance and views seem to be right wing.

Others don’t like it when I point to what seem to be flaws in free market ideas.

And so on

*

Again I find this a bizarre idea; people should only go to places where there ideas will not be challenged.

Is that what you’d want - to never have you ideas challenged, never have anyone ask you a question that you find difficult to answer?

Is that why you get huffy when I ask you things you’re unwilling to answer, you don’t like your ideas being challenged?

I’m the opposite.

*

 

Actually that's not true, you are frequently insulting and contemptful towards people who respond to you. I think your usual excuse is that you are respectful towards people who are worthy, but nobody is worthy here.

But anyway, leaving that aside, one quick question.

Do you work in the public sector or live off state benefits?

 

I don't like it when you hijack threads with your nonsensical and rambling posts.


And how do you know what others like and don't like?



Who made you omnipotent?

I'm sorry, but being moderator does not give you that ability.

 

This is show and tell time, and I now present BALBUS...

*

No, actually I didn't notice that.

Because its just b.s. spewing out yer mouth...

Uh huh.

*

Not interested. I think a lot of us here are way past that point and we would like to find common ground and collaborate on some positive change rather than see who can spar the best.

Oh my god. I typed 5 different responses to that and nothing quite says it..... and so, without further ado, I present BALBUS.:banghead:

 

So, how do we go about removing a moderator?

 

Oh, and this really reminds me of Balbus...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxnegxNEDAc

 

You have to send him a PM first and ask him nicely. Already did that. Didn't work.

 

Good question.

Would you mind collaborating with a member of the owl worshipping illuminati for the greater good? Then lets talk.

 

Oh, Hip, I don't think you're a member of the illuminati!



I just think you're a hypnotically controlled government mind agent!

 

That's OK. I don't think you really believe in those conspiracy theories either, you are just trying to subvert the dominant paradigm.

 

let us petition the king