Arabs are the other people on the planet who practice Circumcision. Obviously Jews too. (Semetic peoples aka 'the people of the Circumcision) You are not posting 'studies'. You are posting Statistics. Exactly the same statistics are used to 'prove' that uncircumcised women are unclean and risky. After all, uncut women have much much higher rates of: AIDS, STDS Unwanted pregnancy (and the complication of abortion) not to mention less incidence of lesbianism, prostitution or masterbation. Not to mention.. men dont want to look at 'flaps' 'on' a womans vagina do they? AIDS and STD rates among uncut women is a statistical fact and Doctors from many many countries will advocate female circumcision based on that. I would think twice about having unprotected sex with an uncut female who did not have a recent AIDS test. So would you. Right? But the good news is that we now know that uncircumcised women are at a much higher risk of getting AIDS and Diseases as well as things like Phimosa and labia infections. Female Circumcision is now one of the fastest growing procedures in the USA. Im assuming your wife is going in for it right? You will do this little 'innoculation' on your daughters too I assume? If you think there is anything wrong or misleading in my post - I would appreciate you tell me where and why. I look forward to your reply. * Article on American Female Circumcision and why you need it: http://www.noharmm.org/femcirctech.htm
Tell me where anything in that post is wrong, misleading or illogical and why. Its no joke - its entirely based on real arguments, facts and practices. But, Whats wrong there?
El Proximo - I don't know where in the world you are from, but you certainly are loaded with misinformation. About 25% of the world's male population is cut, and in addition to Muslims (including those in Indonesia and Malaysia) and Jews and the USA, here are the others: a substantial % in Canada, New Zealand and Australia, the Philippines (almost 100%), South Korea (almost 100%), Mexico (especially near the U.S. border - see the film "Y Mama Tambien", where the upper class guy ridicules the lower class guy for his ugly uncut cock), and many African tribes, for which circumcision is a rite of passage into adulthood. Also Indian tribes of North and South America. A large percentage of Japanese men are cut. Regarding the African studies I mentioned, a number of villages were studied, some where the men were routinely cut, and others where they were uncut, and the 8X more likely to get HIV if uncut findings are now accepted. Since the HIV rate in some African countries such as Zimbabwe is now about 30%, something has to be done to prevent extermination of the population, and if condoms are not routinely available or used, circumcision is the answer, and the men are lined up to get it done to them. Another study just released revealed that uncut men were up to 50% more likely to get STDs than cut men, and that these findings "suggest 'substantial benefits' for routine neonatal circumcision". This study was done over 25 years by a New Zealand medical group, with no ties to the USA. Check it out in Reuters, Nov. 6, 2006. Regarding your comments on female circumcision, or as we prefer to call it here in the USA, genital mutilation, you don't know anything about the subject. What is done in some African Muslim countries is a complete cutting out of the clitoris to lessen the enjoyment of the sexual act for the female. It is illegal to do this anywhere in the U.S. and if you are caught doing this here, you go to prison for a long time. My girlfriend is fully intact, and will remain so, and my daughter in fact campaigns against this practice aggressively in her work. There is one middle ground however: in African countries where male circumcision is a rite of passage done at puberty, and female genital mutilation is also practiced, a symbolic nicking of the clitoral hood is suggested as an alternative to removal of the clitoris, which is the equivalent of cutting off the glans of your penis, which I am sure you would not like. Cutted
Additional comment to El Proximo - the 1959 article you cited on "female circumcision" does not call for excision of the clitoris, but merely the freeing up of the clitoral hood when it is too tightly connected to the clitoris so that it does not fully retract when sexual excitment occurs. This is similar to the operation on the male foreskin when it does not retract during an erection due to a tight foreskin or an overly short frenulum (the stringy thing in the upside down "V" under the glans), leading to painful erections. The operation done is usually not a full circumcision, but a dorsal slit or a "loose" circumcision, leaving much of the foreskin intact. By the way, I am a lay sex therapist, and have dealt with this problem a number of times for clients. Cutted
Yes Im well aware that Muslims practice Circumcision although its usually when they are older. You are not dealing with my female circumcision post. Please respond to it and tell me where I am wrong and on what point and then even better - explain to me why its any different than what you are proposing and 'leading to' with your leaps of logic?
ElProximo - See my post immediately above your latest for a discussion of the dated 1959 article by an LA doctor who is long dead. I have been a lawyer for many years. i do not do "leaps of logic". Cutted
1959 is recent medical news compared to Kellogg and the New York Doctors in the 40s who popularised male genital mutilation. However, The point of my post is the same as yours. Its reminding you that millions of women in dozens of nations have had female circumcisions and studies have shown they have much much lower rates of AIDS and STDS than Uncut women. You must advocate female circumcision and you ought to warn people about having unprotected sex with uncut women. Right?
Wow! this thread has all the bluster of all the other 'circumcision' threads. Hey, circumcised guys don't know what it's like, so they're far from expert - same with 'naturals.' Why argue? You'll never convince the other. Women have very little business in the discussion, it NOT their body (same with mothers!) The men who change their penises, for gods sake, because their girl friend prefers something else especially have my sympathy as the most pussy whipped among us. The recent AIDS studies were in Africa, among unwashed men in whom circumcision hardened their glans penis, thus offering a modicum of penitration protection from the virus, and it was AIDS, not all STDs which were studied. I have no intention to raise my boy with no concept of cleanliness, nor to be so promiscuous as to need anything more than good sense and a condom to protect himself. Who are you folks kidding, trying to use tribal sexual practices from Africa to convince 21st cy. Americans? Recent conversations in the health field are now turning on the fact that it was a mistake to release these figgures: now African men, who were beginning to use rubbers, are abandoning them for circumcision - in the mistaken belief that that's all they need to do to avoid AIDS. Finally, American men remain ridiculed for allowing an argument in 1875 over masturbation to mutilate their sons decades later. Not to mention the fact that outside of religious persuasions, most decisions are made by moms so that their sons will 'look like' their dad's in the shower! I never showered with my dad, so I don't know the condition of his penis; I'm assuming I'm the same as him. Any wonder why cynical jews have for centuries referred to circumcision as 'the jewish mothers revenge"? Return to your homes and wait to win future battles in other fields (eg. 'peace'), in which one or another side has a possible chance of winning! I love you all, skin or no skin, but the ladies I love more!
Pull the string and I'll wink at you, I'm your puppet I'll do funny things if you want me to, I'm your puppet I'll be yours to have and to hold Darling you've got full control of your puppet Pull another string and I'll kiss your lips, I'm your puppet Snap your finger and I'll turn you some flips, I'm your puppet Your every wish is my command All you gotta do is wiggle your little hand I'm your puppet, I'm your puppet I'm just a toy, just a funny boy That makes you laugh when you're blue I'll be wonderful, do just what I'm told I'll do anything for you I'm your puppet, I'm your puppet Pull them little strings and I'll sing you a song, I'm your puppet Make me do right or make me do wrong, I'm your puppet Treat me good and I'll do anything I'm just a puppet an you hold my string, I'm your puppet Yeah, I'm your puppet Walking, talking, living, loving puppet I'm hanging on a string girl, I'll do anything now I'm a walking, talking, living, loving puppet, and I love you I'm a smiling happy face when you want me to
There are about 120 million cut men in the USA, and most of them like it that way, and so do their women, for health reasons, aesthetic appearance, as well as better sexual performance. It is as simple as that. In Africa, condoms of course would be the recommended preventative thing, but the simple truth is that they are not always available there. And there is a stable test population on which to base a study: in one village no male is cut; in the next village they all are. Thus researchers can follow the incidence of HIV in each village, and they have found that it is 8X higher in the uncut villages. This is not one study, but many, done throughout Africa. Just Google "circumcision" and you will find these studies, as well as the very recent New Zealand study which found an up to 50% increase in STDs in uncircumcised males v cut males studied over 25 years. The reason for this difference is that the underside of the foredkin is particularly susceptible to the entry of the HIV virus and the other STD germs, and when the foreskin retracts after unprotected sex in an uncut male, and he does not clean himself thoroughly right away, the germs don not die upon exposure to air as in a cut penis, but remain in the airless environment under the foreskin, free to enter the host body. El Proximo's rant about female circumcision is ridiculous. No one, other than an extremely conservative Moslem in Africa, could seriously believe that this barbaric custom has any justification at all, and as I said, it is a criminal offense in the USA to do it.
I have repeatedly reminded you that Circumcised women have lower rates of STDs and AIDS. Nobody seems to want to acknowledge this except the Doctors in these nations who justify the procedures with this knowledge. Yes, of course they do it for aesthetic reasons too and obviously men find that alot more attractive than an uncut woman. But the fact is they have studies showing that uncut women are at a much higher risk.
ElProzimo - I doubt if you can produce any legitimate study which says the circumcised women have lower rates of STDs and AIDS. Most women who have had genital mutilation are in Africa, and combined with the studies I cited from Africa, why would clitoral-excised women have sex with uncut men? More likely they would be Moslem, and have sex with cut men, and have an 8X less incidence of STDs and AIDS. Another factor rebutting your statement is that genitally mutilated women in Africa have had their enjoyment of sex significantly reduced, making them less sex partners and more baby bearers serving at their husbands' whim. Cutted
i dont know if this is the right place to ask, but i have a question about my foreskin. ive never spoken to anyone about it but thought i should. am i meant to be able to pull it all the way back? because it feels pretty tight, when i try so i havnt gone all the way, just a little bit more every time =P and a couple of times its gone all the way back and that scared me coz it seemed like it was really tight, didnt hurt me, so i had to try and get rid of my erection so i could fold it back. any help would be greatly appreciated =]
Pat - sounds like you have a mild case of phimosis, or an overly tight foreskin. About 10-15% of uncut guys have this problem. You may be able to cure it by doing the following: 1. Take a hot bath, and after a good soak, smear some hydrocortizone cream (which you can buy is a pharmacy without prescription) on the head of your penis and the underside of the foreskin 2. Very gently work the foreskin back and forth when erect. Do this daily for a month or so. 3. If you still can't retract the foreskin easily, so it does not feel too tight when you do, or if you get little "stretch marks" in the foreskin after doing it, consult a doctor about it. Sexual intercourse will be much better if your foreskin retracts easily, believe me. PM me if you need more personaL advice, and let me know if this works for you.
