For guys who are on some form of estrogen...l

It definitely can be a very long and hard road, just trying to be yourself, if your gender is in conflict with your physical sex. I think I definitely helped myself by being a loner, and isolating myself socially when I was younger. I became estranged from my family as well. None of them knew about my intersex condition (at least I dont think they did) apart from my mum and dad. I think they just became tired of their attempts to mould me into a person I knew I wasn't, being continuously deflected by me. Nothing was ever said, but I think it was just a mutual understanding that the best thing to do was to keep out of each others' lives. Which suited me fine, as I never liked them anyway.

When I decided to openly declare my gender, there was only two people in my life. One friend, and my mother. My friend said he wasn't surprised at all, and accepted it immediately. Surprisingly, my mother who always knew about my condition has always had problems with my identification as female. Although I think her problem with me is more how she thinks Ive negatively impacted on her life, and she blames me for most of her problems. She does accept me as a daughter though, which is the main thing. It just upsets me that she gives me a hard time over something I had no control over.

Puberty is a killer, which is why I am a strong advocate for puberty blockers being administered to young trans people. There's no doubt that the effects of puberty on the male body makes it far harder to 'pass' as a normal female, and to easily integrate into society as your true gender. Than it would be if your body had been prevented from enduring the physically scarring, often irrerversible effects of puberty. You shouldnt apologize for not coming out sooner. Lots of people dont do that till a lot later in life.

Our society makes it extremely difficult for people who feel the opposite gender to the one they were assigned at birth, to disclose that fact. I feel very relieved that I never acted up to the false male identity that was placed on me. I was just treated as a weirdo by my family, and most other kids at school, which suited me just fine. The way I saw it, I'd rather be seen as weird, if the only way I could be seen as ''normal'' was to act as somebody I'm not. I guess even acting as male was something which was beyond me. I just never had it in me to do that, Id definitely have killed myself if I had attempted to do that. People who think living a lie is an easy option usually realise sooner or later you cant run from you are. Repressing yourself isnt the same as getting rid of your true feelings, as that isn't possible.

You are welcome, Im glad you've finally been open about yourself. And good luck with everything. If you need to chat, then I'm here.

 

Thank you so much... I never thought just my thinking at a young age that I didn't want to grow into being a man would become something so big in my life. I honestly didn't have much of a gender problem where it took over my life until I was maybe 17 and noticed some masculine changes in my appearance which I just wasn't comfortable with. Not only that, but the thoughts of wanting to have sex with a guy, but as a girl, really confused me. When I hit 17 I also fell into a serious depression, which is very unlike me. I figured I was just worried about moving away, keeping my job, the usual stuff, but those thoughts that I'm supposed to be a girl really didn't help at all. I just have to do this now before it's too late. My face has become very masculine compared to when I was 16, my body hair is starting to really grow in thicker, my body feels wrong, my hairline is receding in the male pattern, my boy parts I wish would just disappear. I never once used them and felt happy about it. There have been many times where I'd really wish there'd be an "accident" involving my genitalia. I've sat there quite a few times with scissors in my hands, seriously contemplating it. The worst part of all is showering. I don't know why, but I pretty much break down every time I'm showering. I'm constantly looking down cleaning my body, and I just can't do it anymore. I know sooner or later I'd go crazy and order stuff online which is pretty dangerous, so I have to do this now before it's too late. Good fucking god it feels nice to let this out, lol. I thank you for sharing that with me, Invisible Soul. There's so much I'd like to know about how other people have dealt with it, and what their experiences are. I appreciate your sharing so much.

 

Also Invisible Soul, I sent you a PM... I hope you might be able to elaborate in private about some of your experiences. Thanks

 

I always had issues with my gender, or more accurately, I had issues with how others mis-perceived my gender. I never felt confused in that respect, I always felt I was female inside. It always caused me unhappiness, and puberty just intensified that unhappiness even more. Its always been a like a huge black cloud hanging over me. When I reached my teens, I made a decision that I would not start 'living' until I could be completely myself. (Female) So things like romantic relationships, and following my dreams were no-go areas for me. The way I saw it, having no life, was better than living a life where I had to pretend to be someone I wasn't. And as tough as my life has been, I have no regrets about doing that. My life would have been a lot worse if I'd chosen to try and live a lie for others' benefit.

Although I don't see myself as trans, and technically I'm not that medically either, a lot of the feelings you are describing sound very similar to my own. The damage that the untreated androgens did to my body is something that is a continuous source of anguish for me, and the pain never goes away. The effects of puberty really cannot be understated. I looked very feminine in my teens, and people always took me for a girl. Even though I had no breasts, and I wasn't dressed in a feminine way, strangers always saw me as female. But, by the time of my early twenties, my features were definitely more masculine than they were in my teens. Things like more prominent adam's apple, masculine skeletal growth, voice breaking, are all irreversable symptoms of puberty.

It's a weird irony that although sex reassignment surgery for M2F transpeople is a lot more satisfactory than it is for FTM's, the effects of hormones post-puberty are much more effective for FTM's then vice versa. A female bodied person taking testosterone causes facial hair growth, the adam's apple to become more prominent, and the voice to break. A male bodied person taking oestrogen has no effect on facial hair, and very minimal effect on body hair. And it cannot reverse the voice breaking process either. And the adam's apple stays too. In effect, when F2M's start taking testosterone, it's like going through the male puberty. They get most of the masculinising effects that a genetic male would get during puberty. For M2F's on the other hand, the feminising effects post-puberty are very minimal, and not satisfactory at all. Its safe to say that post-puberty, a lot more FTM's can convincingly physically pass as their internal gender than MTF's.

The thing you mention about the scissors is another experience I share. I thought about doing that many times, and actually the last time I came very close to doing it was the moment I decided to seek medical help.

Showering is a very traumatising experience for me. I detest seeing myself anyway, even with clothes on. But naked...showering is a necessary evil for me, and I always make sure Im in and out of there and dressed as quickly as possible. It just feels all wrong seeing my body like that, I've just never been able to come to terms with it. The facial hair, the broken voice, the masculinised features...its like Im living in someone else's body, not my own. When I look in the mirror, its like a stranger staring back at me. I don't recognise my reflection as being 'me'.

I'm sure it is a big relief to be letting it out. The longer you keep that bottled up for, the worse it gets. If I feel I can help, then I will. I see my experiences as being very similar to what a lot of trans people go through, even though ironically, I am more female genetically, than I am male. If anything though, I think the mere existence of people like me, is proof enough that gender, and even physical sex is not as cut and dried as most people would like to believe it is.

 

Why don't you guys stop worrying about your identity and how people see you and just worry about having a good time in life.

 

If you had any concept, or idea of the topic under discussion, you wouldn't even be asking that. The fact you are asking that shows you know nothing about it, so why offer advice on something you know absolutely nothing about?

 

It just seems like you make a big deal out of something that most people don't care much about anyways, and if you act the way you want to act without making a big deal out of it then just mabey people might like you for whoyou are. Just an idea.
It doesn't matter to me what sex a person is trying to be, if they are cool i will give them respect, but if they are overobsessive about their image i might just want to completely avoid them.

 

I'm sorry but that's extremely ignorant...

 

Most people do care about it, and that's just a fact. Many people in this situation get disowned by family members, and/or lose friends as a result of revealing their true selves. Some also suffer verbal, and even physical abuse as a result of being themselves. At the very least, the vast majority will suffer ridicule, and disdain from most in society. If most people didn't care about it, those things wouldn't happen, so you're just wrong. Also, most people in general do not treat transpeople as genuine members of the gender they see themselves as. So, yes other people do make a big deal about it.

When you see yourself as being the opposite of what society sees you as, and your body betrays your natural self, and you cannot live a normal life in the gender you see yourself as, then that is going to screw anybody's head up. And the prejudiced, narrow minded attitudes of society in general certainly doesn't help matters. Many people who suffer with this commit suicide, and most will suffer with depression and mental illness. One of the MAIN reasons for that, is most of general society's attitude to people who fall foul of the strict gender binary that most adhere to. (Even though medically and scientifically, that narrow gender binary is an illusion)

Besides, I only go into discussion about it on here, not in my day to day life.

 

Ok. Sorry if i'm about to sound ignorant or something, but I feel if you were born a girl or a boy, no matter what you feel like inside, just have to play the cards you're dealt. You can try to turn into a girl but if you don't look/act/sound female then expect some critisism. I know this is kind of going against my last post (respect and attraction are different things) but still, even if you are a convincing female, then are you honest about not always being one? I sure hope so because honestly I would not want to find out its really a "dude" at the last minute. I mean its just the way god made you so of course there is going to be problems with you trying to "fix" his plan.

 

There's so many assumptions there man.
For one, what does it matter if you think someone's a girl and then you find out they aren't? Don't you ever think about anyone but yourself, this topic is obviously not about you.
And instead of assuming God exists and is up in the clouds dictating who should be a girl and who should be a boy, why not just focus on how people feel about themselves, and allowing people to be happy?

 

Haha ok I feel a little out of place I admit. Its just if I did find out it to be a dude, I would be pissed because 1.They are dishonest and creepy 2.It feels natural and right when you know for a fact its a biological girl.

 

I agree with you, it wouldn't be right for them to lie to you about something like that, but at the same time, why is this even an issue? Do you really think all transgender people would lie?

 

I don't know thats why I was asking IS if (she) would lie.

 

Okay, dealing with your first point, it is a scientific fact that gender (or at least one's feeling of their own gender) is neurological. So, just because someone appears to be one gender on the outside, doesn't mean their neurological setup is going to be in harmony with that. In most cases it is, but in a small amount of cases, it is not. And there is scientific eveidence to prove this is at least highly likely to be the reason why some feel they are the opposite sex to the one suggested by outward sexual anatomy alone. Just because the brain cannot be seen, it is just as much a physical organ of your body as anything else, so why should it not be taken into account? You people say you should "stay how you're born'', but if your neurological gender is the opposite of your physical sex, surely trying to repress that is ''going against nature'' as well? And if not, why not? Why is the brain any less important than the physical sex anatomy of your body?

You have just contradicted yourself. You say most people don't care about it, then you yourself act as if you do, and say transpeople need to "expect some criticsm''. Many transpeople do not disclose their pasts because of bigoted attitudes like yours. And frankly, I don't blame them one iota.

Ah, you're religious, how did I guess? Okay, for one, I was born with an intersex condition. Intersex means someone who is born with biological characteristics of both sexes and/or ambiguous genitalia at birth. (though usually one of the sexes is the predominant.) So, the assertion from the god squad that god ''only makes male and female, and no inbetween'' is a total falsehood. And many intersex babies, including me, have been subject to invasive surgery only to keep up this illusion of there only being 'total male' and 'total female' in existence. So even biologically, gender and phyiscal sex isnt as cut and dried as people like you like to make out. So, if ''god'' makes everyone the way they are, why did he make me the way I am? Genetically, I am mostly female but not totally so, and I was born with a defect which made my body overproduce androgens which masculinised my body. The ignorance of people like you is just staggering. I always identified as female from a very young age, and seeing as my genetic makeup is mostly female, surely I am staying true to how I was born, even in your eyes, no?

 

Ok usually if it is a guy from birth, then he is going to have a "guy" brain. (They are bigger than girl brains lol) So yeah girls have smaller heads in general too.

I have already stated I was aware of contradicting myself, but thats because I am attracted to girls. However, even if I can't help who I am attracted to, I still can respect anybody and everybody that deserves it. That means I am friendly and I don't care about attraction as much as I care about respect tbh.

I am not religous I am in fact agnostic. I was just making a point. In your case, you were playing the hand you were dealt, which is fine, you had to conform to male or female or else life would be alot more complicated. And you went with what you feel. I am sure there are some hermaphrodites that actually stand up to society and say hey, I'm a boy and a girl, and they take whatever they are in for. That is extremely respectful, even more so since they are taking the challenge of society not accepting them. That is how we as a human race can progress and evolve if we don't care what people think when they are being themself, and also not judging people for who they are.

 

If you're not religious, why did you keep mentioning god for?

You are probably not aware of this, but there is scientific evidence to show that at least some transpeople actually do have gender in brain structure closer to the opposite sex, than the perceived one based on sex anatomy alone. If you're going to say transpeople 'deserve criticsm' then you should at least have all the facts to hand before deciding that, and you clearly don't. One part of the brain in particular is 70%/80% smaller in females than it is in males. It has been shown that in some trans people, this part of the brain is in line with the opposite sex of the one assigned at birth based on sex organs. The same tests also showed no difference in this brain area between straight and gay men. Thus rubbishing any connection between trans conditions, and homosexuality.

I get what you're saying, but trans people have to fight all their lives to be seen as the gender they feel inside they are. Most transpeople just want to live normal lives in their own gender. Unfortunately, this is not really realistic or possible without hiding your past. The attitude you professed is one most people share, which is why a lot of trans people dont disclose their medical history. The fact is, most people will not view you as a real woman if they knew you were born with male sex organs. Its not ideal, but I can definitely understand why lots of trans people hide their pasts. If its the only way you can lead a normal life, and have other people seeing you as normal, then I think it's very understandable why they feel they have to do that. It's a similar thing with me, I dont disclose my intersex status to everyone I meet, and why should I? I present myself as female, and thats it. Thats all Ive ever identified as, so thats how I present myself. Also, you say people shouldnt make a big deal of it, then you say that they should mention it. If you mention it, then most people are going to make a big deal of it, that is the way of it.

Well, that is true. But like a lot of intersex people, my sex was wrongly assigned at birth due to my ambiguous genitalia. The reason given by doctors and clinicians for operating on intersex babies, is to make them appear ''more normal'', and give them a better chance of integrating into society, and prevent bullying and stigmatization from society. So really, its society's ignorance, and intolerance of any deviation from the gender ''norm'' that made the medical proffession think it was doing the right thing by operating on intersex babies. The problem with that is, many of those people, including me, grew up feeling the opposite gender of the one that was assigned to me by doctors. And my life has been a misery due to that decision. My gender indentification from a very young age, was female. And again, if physical sex is the be all and end all of gender, then why did I not identify as being male and female?

Like you said, it would only feel right to you if you were with a biological girl. But where does someone like me fit into that? Have you any idea how it feels knowing that most of the opposite sex wouldnt go near me in a romantic way because Im not ''normal''? And the only ones that would are weirdos with some fetish. You say I shouldn't make a big deal about it, why shouldnt I? I feel like Ive been persecuted and had to live a shell of a life for no other reason than I was born with a hideous birth defect I had no control over. I wouldnt wish the life Ive had, or the pain Ive had to endure on anyone.

 

Yupp society can be ignorant, but if more people who are considered "different" would stand up to society, then the less "different" they would end up being. By giving in and accepting you are "different" you are letting society win so they can keep using that label.

It sounds like you have been through alot and i'm sorry. But if you be yourself then no matter what gender you are if you take care of yourself then someone will be attracted to you so just go with the flow.

 

But you can't have it both ways. You say on one hand, that transpeople should disclose their medical history to people, or they're ''lying''. Yet say you shouldn't accept that you're ''different'', because thats just giving the green light for people to keep mislabelling you. And technically Im not trans, but I know most straight guys would feel just as uncomfortable being intimate with a female 'hermaphrodite', as they would a transsexual woman. Inside, I feel no different from any other female. I have the same drives, needs, and desires. Yet it is far more difficult for me to have those needs met because of my physical state. Not that I would wish to be sexually intimate with anyone in my current physical state anyway....

I dont think anyone would be attracted to me. Apart from maybe 'fetishists' who I'd have no desire to be with anyway. And you say 'be yourself', that is what I do. Anytime I meet anyone new, I always introduce myself as female. And I have been doing that since my mid teens. I have been through a lot, and I probably will continue to do so. I gave up on the idea of happiness long ago, I just take life as it comes now. lol

 

I thought you said gender didn't matter? But the point is it doesn't work that way, just like if you woke up tomorrow as female, after the initial novelty of having boobs and stuff and playing with them wore off you'd start to feel extremely uncomfortable in your body, your brain is not hardwired to be female. We are all born with our brain set one way or the other, this is why something feeling wrong with their gender is generally among the 1st memories transsexuals have, and why with intersexed children who doctors try to "correct", well why so many wind up have traumatizing childhoods, the majority are made into girls, but really you only have a 50/50 chance of being right when you make that move for a child.


Honestly, I think I'm pretty okay with a trans person not telling their SO they're trans, at least not for a while. I view disclosure more as a safety issue than an honesty issue, when it comes to transwomen who are are attracted to men anyways.

"So wow, things are going really well! Here, let me dig up a really devastating and horribly misunderstood aspect of my past so you can look at me in a totally different light!"

It's not like we're sex offenders or something. I don't know that it's fair to expect us to be chained to this shit forever. And honestly too many men try to act liberal when it comes to sex but have grown up in a culture where they are far too insecure about their sexuality to handle it, some men might be able to react calmly, but no one feels like being the next Angie Zapata.

*edit*
I also think this is the most traffic in 6 hours this forum has ever got, woooo.

*2nd edit*
While men do in fact have larger heads as a whole since nearly everything on the male body is larger, women do in fact have larger heads relative to their size, and have more grey and white matter.

But it's irrelevant, evolution has made the male/female brains each have their own specialties.