For Christians or anyone else Interested in Paganism...

I never said that "Jesus loves you" (Even though I think you know that-if you believed in that sort of thing : )

All I have been doing is telling you verses that contradict what you have been saying. After all isn't that what the whole thread is based on, the idea that Paganism and Christianity can go hand and hand?

 

I completly understand the Trinity. The Trinity actually makes my
argument more valid. Yahweh says he will NEVER give his name nor
credit to another. El, on the otherhand is more likely to share.

No one claimed that through any go you can go to heaven. Only
through Jesus can you go the heaven he spoke of. El has a heaven,
where his followers go, and so does Yahweh, so do my gods,
so do all gods. There are many places in the Otherworlds, your
gods heaven is not the only one.

Therefore, all religions are valid and correct. They worship their gods,
they go where their gods are. Some, like Buddhism, go nowhere, they
just become one with the life enery. All are right, not in dogma and
myth, but in belief and worship.

 

The idea of this thread, that i knew, was to educate christians on paganism.

Christianity is a religion built of paganism, both Hebrew and European.
The worship of Yawheh, because of the covenant, cant really go with
the worship of other gods. But the worship of El can, because he is
the father of a pantheon. Abraham was a monotheist, not because there
was only one god, but because he only worshipped one.

and "jesus loves you" was just to reference christian cliche,
not a specific instance.

 

I debate so I understand others worldviews and so others can understand mine. The Bible is useful for teaching, rebuking, correting and training in righteousness. Likewise, as I believe how what you say should be corrected please feel free correct me according to what you believe. By this process we can learn eachothers views and perhaps more open minded people in all.

 

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Gen. 1:26

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

There is only one religious text that has held true throughout all the ages and thats the Bible. If you know of another religious text that has fulfilled every prophecy without an error, please inform me.

 

Every prophecy without error? HAHAHAAH


wow, thats funny.

The genesis story was WRITTEN by the OT writers, not an actual account.
All cultures have a creation story, and naturally they credit their own deities.

As to religious texts I think the Quran, the Bagavad Gita, and several others
have done just as much as the bible has.

 

Oh, and might i add, Nostradamus has about the same record as the Bible.
Gonna use him in an argument too?

 

What I meant by that Eye for an eye change to love thy neighbor, doesnt that sorta back up the possibility there were 2 seperate gods? El and Yahweh.

 

Thats a good example NatureFreak, Eye for an Eye was Yahwehs teachings, as a war god, that was what you do right? El was a father god not a war god, so Jesus
taught his love for his people.

El was a distant god, there were others to do the work like making
rain, etc, but he was Abrahams friend, he was distant but loving.
Yahweh was "boom boom boom, fire! I AM GOD!!!! BOOOOOOM"
kind of god, he was the kind of god that they wanted. One that shows
his prescence. Like pagans tended to do, they left the gods that didnt
do it for them, and went for the one who did.

Eventually, they completly left their old gods behind, because
Yaweh did all that they needed him to, but he demanded thanks
and love, and worship, with hell to pay if you didnt.

 

The Bible is the only religious text that has not been wrong on its prophecies up to this date. Nostradamus has been wrong plenty of times and the prophecy he was right on he got alot from the Bible.

 

OH ok, well thank you for the literal comparison.

I dont think that that is very important to the points though.

Which propehices have been fulfilled from the bible?

Enlighten me, i cant argue them because i dont know
which you mean, so let me in, and then we will talk.

 

Minus the fulfilling prophecy part, you are mostly correct. Especially when you take into account that other socio-political and religious groups were literally wiped out in favor of christianity. When you destroy a people, the first thing you do is destroy their faith. Had Rome not destroyed most of the Celts and then Christianity not eaten and digested the extreme majority of paganism there would be religious texts to compare. Yet all we have now are the Bible, Torah/Talmud, the Quran and legend.

As for fulfilling prophecy, the bible is more than a little self-serving. Not only can it not be proven that ANY prophecy was ever fulfilled, it cannot be proven that any story in the bible actually happened. Most theologians and scientists agree that a great flood did in fact occur but that it is unlikely that a man built an ark that saved a breeding pair of every species on earth. This was likely a story told to explain the flood and why humans and animals survived.

I personally believe that Jesus was a real historical figure who walked the earth some 2000 years ago. Was he the product of a deity? Did he perform miracles? I wasn't there so I don't know for a fact that he did. And neither does anyone else. But I respect your right to believe what you will. Please grant others who don't wish to have your beliefs forced upon them the same courtesy.

 

zoomie, i thought the celts had a mostly oral tradition? so there still wouldn't be texts. i thought that much of their lore was actually preserved in writing by christian monks.

jesusdiedforu, not all religions are scripture-based, anyway.

 

All of the written lore is from the monks, but have been horribly
mixed with their own Christian beliefs. So you really have to read
carefully. I think he was just referencing that the bible isnt
the "most true" just because it has lasted longer.

If not for the paganism that was weeded out, the Christian
church wouldnt be what it is today. Its all a product of history,
not prophecy and "correctness".

I, unlike Zoomie, even as a pagan, believe that Jesus was
divine sent, from the god of Abraham. He had a message
from his father, and for his people. But i dont believe
the he, nor his god, were after me as an audience.

I also believe that Cuhullain was sent by Lugh, and like
Jesus, was born to a mortal woman by conception with a
god. He was half god half mortal, and at the same time
was Lugh in the flesh.

We all have our stories, our gods and our saviors, no
one is correct, it all depends on who you want to spend
your afterlife with.

I want to be with Bel(anos), my First Father, and with my
ancestors of old. My First Father has set up an afterlife for
me, and with him is the place for me, to take my seat amoung
my ancestors, and protect my decendants for as long as they
remember me.

 

Here is a prophecy just regarding the Jews returning to Israel. If you want more information on the particular verse just click on the paraphrase.

The Jews would return to Israel (Fulfilled 1948).

Genesis 28:10-15
Jacob saw a vision of Israel's future

Deuteronomy 30:3-5
The fortunes of the Jews would be restored

Isaiah 27:12-13
God promised to restore the Jews

Isaiah 43:5-6
Isaiah foretold of the worldwide return of Jews to Israel

Jeremiah 23:3-6
The Messiah will appear after the Jews return to Israel

Jeremiah 32:36-37
The Jews would survive Babylonian rule and return home

Jeremiah 32:37-41
The Jews would return to Israel

Ezekiel 20:34
Ezekiel said the Jews would return to Israel

Ezekiel 34:13
The Jews would return to "their own land"

Ezekiel 36:24
Israel would be re-gathered

Amos 9:14-15
Jacob's descendants would regain control of Israel

Zechariah 8:7-8
Zechariah prophesied the Jews return to Jerusalem
​

 

i think it's a shame to see the religion of christianity reduced to a mere fulfilling of prophesies and being used to judge and divide, rather than understand and unite.

big deal, prophesies fulfilled. happens all the time. i read tarot, it happens every day.

 

The Messiah that Yahweh promised hasnt come yet, so theres one not fulfilled.

Jeremiah 37-41 is an excellent example of Yahweh being a different god from
El, like when he used the Assyrian army to defeat his own people, just to prove his point. And not once in that whole passage did it mention "Israel", because as a state, Israel didnt exist until post WWII. Israel is a tribe, not a country. (side note, its Isra EL, just so you know, Abrahams decendants are of El, not Yahweh.)

Im sure the Palestines have a difference of opinion of where the Jews "own land" is,
so that one isnt fulfilled either.

Israel hasnt been "re-gathered"

Jacob's descendants dont have control of Israel, again, refer to the same
Palestinians, and the fact that Israel wasnt a country 2600 years ago.

And just because some Jews went to Jerusalem, doesnt make it a fulfilled prophecy.

Sorry man, that doesnt make the bible absolute truth. Besides, what about the prophecies of other cultures? Why do only Semitic prophecies count?

King Arthur was a fulfilled Brythonic prophecy. But you dont see me
flinging it around to give validity to my faith.

Besides, i have no doubt that both El and Yahweh have made
promises and sent prophecy, and i believe they will come true
for the people that were promised. I am not arguing that the
Hebrew gods arent real, they are, so of course their prophecies
come true, but for their people.

Look at the prophecies of Abraham, and the prophecies of Moses.

Abraham is promised greatness and abundance for his people,
the children of El, the prophecies of Moses is very threatening,
violent, pessimistic and wrathful. Yahweh was forcing his worship,
El was offering his love. Jesus preached of the love of El, and
preached against the wrath of Yahweh.

 

detailed prophecy that is never wrong does not happen every day. Perhaps you would understand if you knew the prophecies of the Bible but for now your only knowledge of prophecy is tarot...

 

JesusDiedForU, your message loses merit when you stop
informing and debating, and start preaching.

I know what prophecies you reference now, and still
I stand unfaultered.

Your god is real, but you confuse the father of Jesus
with a god that stole his people.

Your god isnt the wrathful god that Moses preached,
Jesus himself was trying to reform the Jewish
religion, but the Yahweists wouldnt hear it.

Learn more theology, and your prophecies
will be completly different to you.

 

First of all, Jesus fulfilled every prophecy described in the OT about the coming Messiah.

The Palastines have a differences of opinion of where the Jew own land is so there for that prophecy is not true??

Come on... Look, the Jews were kicked out of their land almost 2600 years ago. Then in 1948, shortly after WW2, they took back control of Judah. This was the first time in almost 2600 years that the Jews had control of any part of Israel. Interestling enough, it is also a prophecy that the generation that sees the Jews return to Israel will not die but will see Christ's second coming. In other words, there will be people still alive from 1948 when Jesus returns in all his glory.

Israel has not been regathered?

In Ezekiel 36:24, the prophet said that the Jews would be re-gathered to Israel. This prophecy was partially fulfilled after the Babylonian Captivity, which took place about 2600 years ago. This prophecy has been partially fulfilled again during the 1900s when millions of Jews returned to their ancient homeland. As of the year 2001, about 6 million Jews reside in Israel and an estimated 12 million Jews live in other countries, including the United States.

The prophecies of the Jews returning to Israel are only the tip of the ice berg in regards to all the prophecies of the Bible.