For Christians or anyone else Interested in Paganism...

Yeah my great grandma I think was full blooded Cherokee. I am a member of the Echota Cherokee tribe. I have did some protests with my dad but that was before he got disabled and when I was around 13. The county had set up a hautned trail/house thing on an indian mound, called the "trail of fears" which was a mockery of the trail of tears, because we had family that was forced to leave. My other heritage is a mixture of English/Irish and German. My dad has a Gaelic name.

I really wish their were more diverse religions around here instead of the same ol same ol. Scrap rat mentioned that Uniterian(Sp?) Church but that is over an hour drive away. On the interstate. Heron do you live in Mississippi?

 

heron, i like how you illustrate the commonalities between what many may see as opposing faiths. i think this is where the breakdown of dialogue between christians, pagans, and other faiths often occurs: there is a focus not only on misconceptions, but also on differences (historical, scriptural or otherwise) between faiths, that overshadows the more important essence that they may share.

i think that there are a lot of misconceptions about christianity, especially among pagans, and even among christians, although maybe not in the same way jesusdiedforu is implying. when i was homeless in woodstock, i stayed with my boyfriend, ken, who is a very devout christian. a lot of pagans i think fear christians every bit as much as christians fear us, i think. there's the assumption (and,jesusdiedforu, i admit i've made that assumption often myself) that all christians are pushy, intolerant, fire-and-brimstone, proseltyzers looking for converts to culturally assimilate. ken is anabaptist, which means that in his church, baptism is a choice that must be made as an adult, and one's relationship with god is so deeply personal that to even talk about it borders on disrespect for that bond. so of course they don't proseletyze. but that doesn't mean that they don't "witness": to ken, bearing witness is a matter of how one's life is lived - and that means not judging the spiritual lives of others, as well. the focus of his faith was on living out jesus's message of peace, tolerance, service, and most especially, love. so in a lot of ways, even though our religions were different, our spirituality was shared. ken told me the story of st. francis of assisi, and i learned more about my own faith from that example from his. i think we learned a lot from each other. i think this kind of dialogue between religions does more for building peace than does debate - although that has its place too.

jesusdiedforu, you asked if anyone here has ever been "born again". while (obviously)not bible-based, actually a lot of pagans - maybe even some here on this board? have gone through a similar religious experience, which we call "initiation". initiation is often ritual-based, although there are some who believe in "trial by fire" initiation of experience (by that i mean going through an experience that is so drastically life-altering its completely transforms you spiritually. like what i'm going through now, with the homelessness.) initiation means different things to different pagans, and often widely varies pagan-to-pagan, even within the same religion or tradition. it doesn't require any kind of renunciation (although that can be part of it) or specific oath (ditto.) the essence of initiation is that of profound transformation, ending of the old life and beginning of the new, and a process of spiritual growth that brings one closer to one's concept of the divine. very much like the christian concept of being "born again" in many ways.

 

Thanks Kitty, i am trying to show that all our faiths can exist together.
I used to not be so caring towards Christianity, but life changes those things.

Nature, yeah I live in Mississippi.

 

Good info kitty...

All religions can coexist, I mean its like eye color everyone has one, some are different and some are the same, some people have green eyes, some have blue eyes, but people dont fight wars in the name of the green eyes! People just accept eyes as a beautiful personal thing unique to that person, and I think thats the way religion should be.. but thats just my opinion.

 

unfortunately, people have fought wars over eye and skin color - even though they don't always admit it. the blue-eyed germans tried to exterminate the brown-eyed jews; white americans try to "liberate" dark-skinned iraqis. and of course both of these examples have been veiled by "religious" or "moral" justifications, even though genocide is never justifiable and certainly isn't religious or spiritual. racism is one of the greatest evils this world knows. and i think that's something people of any religion can all agree on.

 

Yeah I you are right, I didnt think about racism... sorry

Hell I guess most people just cant agree on anything then, so they have to kill each other because of it. Man's fear of the unknown...

 

it's the fear of the different. and if i'm not mistaken, racism and xenophobia have been justified by religon since the dawn of civilization. it's almost as if as soon as religion was organized, people began using it as an excuse to kill. but just as religion has been used - abused, actually - to justify hatred and intolerance, it can (hopefully) serve as a working tool to bring about peace, through interfaith dialgues such as this one, helping those who may otherwise fear each other to see the common essence that is shared, beyond the differences that may separate.

 

The story of Elijah was one of the first true "killing in the name of god" slaughters in history. Monotheism, in its close-mindedness, is the parent of holy wars. Which religions do all the fighting? THe Monotheists, the Jew vs Muslims, Christians vs Muslims, etc. Pagans "pitted" their gods against each other, but that was tribal w
warfare, it was a war, that the gods were brought into, not a war in the name of the gods.

But Pagans were also likely to just incoporate new gods, rather than
bitch and fight about theirs being correct, because they were all real,
but the reasons for worship depended on the people, much like I
mentioned about me and my best friend.

Think of all the wars in history that were fought over religion.
Who was fighting?

 

There is only one way to the father and that is if you are born again through the son. Accepting the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven.

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12

 

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12

 

Why is there such a big change in the way of the old testament and the way of the new? Why did the kosher laws suddenly dissapear? Why would a god change his ways like that?

 

Its always amazing how the christians revert back to their own
catch phrases to make their point. Its a shame that I know
more theology of his religion than he does, and i am a pagan.

I can justify Jesus' teachings, and what he said and what he meant,
but he cant. Jesus taught his people to return to their father, that
he loved them, that he wasnt this mean tyranical god that they
feared so much (yahweh) but instead he loved them (El)

In the OT, El said that he is unchanging. Well there was definatly a change
in the OT. So, either you are right, and there is only that one god, and
the bible is his true word, then you woship a liar, because he changed.

If I am right, then he never changed, but another god took the story
and made it his own. El never changed, his people abandoned him, so
he sent a prophet, his people didnt belive him, because he was not
the prophet of their god (yahweh) that they were waiting on, but was
the True Prophet of El, their father.

But the Arabs listened, and the Gentiles made the story their own,
and they worship Abrahams father now too.

 

now this post crosses the line between debate and proseletyzing. remember you're in our forum, jesusdiedforu.

 

Yeah it went from Eye for an Eye to Love thy Neighbor?

And I agree with Kitty, dont try and convert people here, we are not trying to convert you, just to inform.

 

I just want to hear a real answer, not "jesus loves you" for every defense.

Give me something real.

 

i think going from "eye for an eye" to "love thy neighbor" (and even "love thy enemy") is a good idea in any religion.

and i don't have any argument with "jesus loves you." (i'm sure the teacher/avatar that was/is jesus the christ probably would have/does.) it's the bursting into our forum and demanding "i've got the one true faith, convert or go to hell" i have a problem with.

that's the kind of "dialogue" (although it seems pretty one-sided for dialogue) that creates resentment and animosity, fosters fear and mistrust, and nutures conflict, not peace.

jesusdiedforu, we don't want to change you or convert you. in your favor, it says a lot that you are so concerned over the immortal souls of complete strangers on the internet. but there is also the question of boundaries. we ask the same respect for us that we extend to you. share your beliefs and faith with us if you wish, even debate. we would love to hear about and celebrate the commonalities between our faiths, or to understand and learn from the differences. but when you simply announce on our forum that you have the one true way and start pushing for converts, it is crossing a line, a line that is drawn not only by common courtesy, but also forum guidelines.

we have no intent to change your beliefs, convert you to our faith, limit your free speech, or show you any disrespect in any way - until you cross that line. then we must calmly but assertively remind you that you entered our forum uninvited but nonetheless welcomed, and we ask you not to insult our hospitality with proseltyzing. there are more appropriate venues for your message. please show respect and restraint, or else be shown the door.

and i'm sure that, like jesus, the goddess loves you, too. but i, personally, am already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth.

 

Instead of trying to be perfect through laws and sacrifices God made the task of salvation simpler by becoming our personal sacrifice thus fulfilling the OT. Jesus says,

"Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

 

Nope I'm right. The God of the Bible never changed. Jesus was the God of the OT just as his was the God of the New. Perhaps understanding the Trinity would help.

 

Well the claim was that through any God we can go to heaven. That verse in it self, shows that is not correct. Of course that is my worldview. If you would like to show me where i went wrong according to your worldview please do so : )