Fleeing our Orwellian State...

Discussion in 'Amsterdam' started by ShuggaMagnolia, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. ShuggaMagnolia

    ShuggaMagnolia Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    oh and thank you to everyone who was decent and helpful, and sorry to everyone who wasn't, I didn't mean to get all crazy with you but we aren't dumb, we know what we are doing, and its wrong for people to treat others badly, and I appologize for my harsh conduct. And sorry to mopperm, I feel like I really laid into you, but you are still rude and bitter.
     
  2. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,117
    Likes Received:
    8
    seems to me people have been very mean to someone who was just asking for advice, I cant tell you much about moving to holland as I live in the united kingdom wish I could help.
    maybe taking a visit there may be a idea , but dont get the impression that in europe we are all this unfriendly

    best wishes jon
     
  3. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,117
    Likes Received:
    8
    you could maybe try getting eu citizenship in another eu country like britain or ireland, and then moving from there to holland
     
  4. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,117
    Likes Received:
    8
    you could maybe try getting eu citizenship in another eu country like britain or ireland, and then moving from there to holland ...would imagine its all very possible
     
  5. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,117
    Likes Received:
    8
    you could maybe try getting eu citizenship in another eu country like britain or ireland, and then moving from there to holland ...would imagine its all very possible
     
  6. koopa

    koopa De Kuil Krue Hipster

    Messages:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    5
    If you are 19 you were born around 1985 so theoretically your parents may have been part of the 60's hippy movement. Lets say in 1960 your mom was 20 years old, that would mean she was 45 when she had ya. That is possible yes, but most hippies pumped out kids when they were still kids. Even if she was 20 in 1969, she would have been 35 when she had you. Again possible, but not likely considering having kids in your mid thirties is a modern trend. So while you may be right, it is unprobable so for you to assume I must be stupid to think otherwise proves your out of touch with the NORM and are egocentric.

    BTW hippies DID turn into yuppies, read your history. After spending the seventies getting off the drugs and realizing that sit ins weren't changing the world, they grew up and got corporate jobs in the 80s.......THATS A WELL KNOWN TREND (much more known to society as a whole than YOUR mothers age).....so again who is stupid?

    BTW when I used the word Yippie....I wasn't referring to an organization. Rather I was using it in the "big fucking deal" sense of the word.

    koopa

    P.S. again, people WERE rude to you and you returned the rudeness to them tenfold so you shouldn't judge them based on something you will do at the drop of a hat yourself.

    P.P.S. good to know that mopperm, myself, myrtje, and others are all eurotrash in your opinion. good to know that none of us have a clue about American culture in your opinion...... shhh!!!!!!!! :p
     
  7. ShuggaMagnolia

    ShuggaMagnolia Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks johhny2mad, and koopa, 1985 would make me 21, you are correct about my moms age when she had me, you are incorrect about hippies being kids when they had kids,birth control was available and abortion was rampant, teen pregnancy is on the rise if you will recall, and the old hippies didn't end up getting corporate jobs, they became teachers, artists, contractors, all blue collar jobs. The reason you are mistaken is because you neglect to consider the history of the US' political parties, most hippies are democrats, our workers parties, blue collar. The republican party is the white collar party, and believe me when I say this, no hippies voted for Nixon. Hippies did not go into the corporate world, if they did, they would have went across party lines, and in America, that is one thing we don't do. If you will "read your history" you will note we had a civil war over party lines and principles. And i know you were using yippie in that way, but yippie is a word that actually has something to do with hippies, and yuppies really don't. A yuppie is a urban professional who does yoga, and eats bean curds, and meditates. Yuppie is a word we made up to make fun of people who listen to dave matthews. lol.... ok?
     
  8. koopa

    koopa De Kuil Krue Hipster

    Messages:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    5
    My mom was married by 18 and pregnant with my older sister by the ageo of 23 and that was, for the most part, the way back then. Abortions did occur back then of course, but more to save the family the shame of having a child out of wedlock. (I do not agree with that "shame" don't get me wrong. NOr do many kids today...which is why teenage parenthood is on the rise, thank you). People got married and had kids at younger ages back then, plain and simple.


    That lack of logic left me speechless........hippies didn't go corporate because that would cross government party lines? Hate to break it to ya, but most REAL hippies don't care for the government or any "lines" for that matter. But your right, I must not have read my history and I must not remember that hippies were the ones dodging the draft......However to be consistent with your reasoning, Hippies wouldn't dodge the draft because that would be anti-gov't hence anti-democratic party!!!!!! Can't cross that line now. Wow thats insane.....


    First off I never mentioned the word yippie in the way you suggest, as you just agreed. Second, I know what a yippie in your sense of the word is and didn't need nor ask for a school lesson. You are merely trying to metaphorically "name drop" and boast about a piece of knowledge you possess. So don't try to turn it into an argument point to cover your tracks, as I never brought it into anything I posted. But thanks for lightening the mood with a Dave Mathews joke :)


    Why don't you try taking your argument that no hippies became yuppies up with the encyclopedia..........

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie

    Yuppie, short for "Young Urban Professional," describes a demographic of people comprising baby boomersas well as people in their late twenties and early thirties. Yuppies tend to hold jobs in the professional sector, with incomes that place them in the upper-middle economic class.

    The term "Yuppie" emerged in the early 1980s as an ironic echo of the earlier "hippies" and "yippies" who had rejected the materialistically oriented values of the business community. Although the original yuppies were "young," the term now applies as well to people of middle age.


    The yuppie stereotype

    The term "yuppies" has come to refer to more than just a demographic profile - it is also a psychographic and geographic profile. It describes a set of behavioral and psychographic attributes that have come to constitute a commonly believed stereotype.

    According to the stereotype, yuppies are more conservative than the hippies who preceded them (in reality, many of the early yuppies were actually hippies in the 1960s and early 1970s). Dispensing with the social causes of the hippies (who themselves shed traditional values), yuppies tend to be "work hard / play hard" types. A cinematic example is Gordon Gekko in the movie Wall Street.


    SO HOW BOUT DEM APPLES?????
    DOES SHOE LEATHER (SANDAL ACTUALLY!) TASTE GOOD?????

    Its not a good idea to come swinging blindly at me, I'm good at getting out of the truths way and letting it hit people in the face like a baseball bat slugger.

    But thanks for the thanks shugg......LOL :)
     
  9. ShuggaMagnolia

    ShuggaMagnolia Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    First, we are generally pro-choice, thats pro-abortion, and we all have been since the movement started in the 60s, and teen pregnancy isnt on the rise because people aren't having abortions, its because societies standards about sex are loosening.

    Second, you have left me speechless about this matter as what you have said is so full of errors. Let me try to explain to you. In the 60s there was a war called The Vietnam War, and some people thought the war was a good idea, and some people thought it was a bad idea, the people that thought it was a good idea were those in the republican party, the white collar elite in our country. Then there where the people who thought it was bad, the democratic party,who were the blue collar working class. The hippies, being anti war would obviously not support the republican party in turn supported the democratic party. Those who are in opposition of war will always vote democrat. And now about your draft dodging mis-statement, the democratic party is anti-war, it wouldn't be going against the democratic party to dodge the draft, it would be going against the republican party. As a matter of fact the last democratic nominee for president was an ex hippie, he couldn't avoid the draft, so when he came back to the states after his campaign he publicly burned his ribbons and medals.
    And finally,you basically restated what I said to begin with about yuppies, urban professionals who try to be all progressive but really arn't, yuppie is a name we call people who think its cool to be into hippie stuff but they really aren't about it.
    See how it says,
    "The term "Yuppie" emerged in the early 1980s as an ironic echo of the earlier "hippies" and "yippies" who had rejected the materialistically oriented values of the business community."

    An ironic echo, do you know what ironic means?
    And also addressing again the second part of your responce again, "hippies" and "yippies" who had rejected the materialistically oriented values of the business community"
    rejected the materialistically oriented values of the business community, they rejected the business community, not "went off to work in offices and in other corporate positions"
    Look man, you are just plain wrong, and the reason you will always be wrong is because you don't understand the history of it.
     
  10. ShuggaMagnolia

    ShuggaMagnolia Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Look, the elders in my family were a part of it, I know all about it, i've heard first hand accounts of the shit going down in california then, and all the other shit, I was raised on hippie by the first hippies. I know what I'm talking about.

    P.S. You mean Louisville Slugger, not baseball bat slugger....lol
    Its cute how all you that live overseas try to emulate the US culture, you are close, but not quite. =)
     
  11. koopa

    koopa De Kuil Krue Hipster

    Messages:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    5
    ACTUALLY, its being a part of a society with loosening sexual and moral standards that encourages the teens to have more kids by removing the social stigma from abortions. It used to be have the abortion to avoid the social stigma of having a child out of wedlock. Furthurmore its being a part of a society with loosening sexual and moral standards that encourages teens to have MORE abortions. So it looks like the change in standards encourages BOTH having kids and having abortions......which means it really is just encouraging personal empowerment. Looks like its you who isn't seeing the big picture.

    Everything in this world in one way or another "comes" from its opposite. Relaxed social attitudes towards sex and birth control came from an earlier time of sexual repression. Having kids out of wedlock being ok came from an earlier time when it wasn't. Having an abortion and not feeling ashamed about it came from an earlier time when your parents told the neighbors you were at bording school because they were ashamed of both the bastard child and the shame of having an abortion.



    I was quoting the encyclopedia, so you and your family (who you believe represents a majority of all hippies) can take it up with the encyclopedia.

    DODGING ANY GOVERNEMENT ENFORCED DRAFT IS ANTI GOVERNEMENT

    are you trying to say democrats don't have to obey laws that republicans prefer? are you trying to say that either party can disobey the law? Draft dodgers broke a law in order to protest BOTH the war and the government as a whole. BTW the government and public opinion can not be boxed into two parties, or "lines" as you refer to them. Nor are American citizens behaviors defined and controlled by 2 parties or "lines" as you claim.


    Actually you said this...

    In response, I quoted the encyclopedia which didn't restate what you said. It stated that many of the original hippies became the original yuppies. Read it again, click on the link! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie

    "According to the stereotype, yuppies are more conservative than the hippies who preceded them (in reality, many of the early yuppies were actually hippies in the 1960s and early 1970s). Dispensing with the social causes of the hippies (who themselves shed traditional values), yuppies tend to be "work hard / play hard" types. A cinematic example is Gordon Gekko in the movie Wall Street."


    But why should I believe an encyclopedia when I can take your parents word for it, geez what was I smoking that made me so silly as to view an encyclopedia as being more credible than your parents?

    YET ANOTHER "SWING AND A MISS" Is your face sore?
     
  12. ShuggaMagnolia

    ShuggaMagnolia Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    The first part of your statement doesnt make sense, how did you come to the conclusion that they are not having abortions because of their loosening morals? Wouldn't they be having more abortions if their if their morals were loosening?

    Second, it says "many" not most......does "many" mean more than 50 percent of the general population? No, Most hippies did not turn into yuppies.

    Third, only half of our government supported the draft, its not anti government, its called freedom of speech... Thats the beauty of our government(or was anyways) Its bipartisan, if the currently elected party's views are not the same as yours, you don't have to abide, you can side with the other party.
    Which brings me away from this nonsense and back to the topic at hand.

    Recently our government has been instituting laws that are violating our constitution, and bush is making it very hard for liberal people, not just hippies to exist.
    5 years ago we could assemble freely on public land, as many people as we could fit, but bush passed a law that requires that if more than 75 people are present on public land that everyone must register with the government so they can moniter us.
    The patriot act makes it legal for the government to arbitrarily and without warning detain you, search you, put you in jail without trial,moniter your phone, emails, internet activity, financial activity. Our government is abusing POWs. Christianity has now assimilated into our government. We feel a fascist state is about to overtake our country and we are trying to escape. And even as I write this the gestapo could be watching.......I really want help, not to argue.
     
  13. ShuggaMagnolia

    ShuggaMagnolia Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems that everyone in this damn of mine country is too busy getting high and being apathetic to do anything about it, every day on the news I hear about a little bit more of my freedom that slips away.
     
  14. koopa

    koopa De Kuil Krue Hipster

    Messages:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    5
    because both having the abortion and having a bastard child were frowned upon by the church and by a majority of US society at that time. So loosening attitudes towards sex can easily and naturally encourage keeping a child. There is less stigma about having a child out of wedlock and in that regard less pressure to have the abortion.

    I WILL REPEAT

    ACTUALLY, its being a part of a society with loosening sexual and moral standards that encourages the teens to have more kids by removing the social stigma from abortions. It used to be have the abortion to avoid the social stigma of having a child out of wedlock. Furthurmore its being a part of a society with loosening sexual and moral standards that encourages teens to have MORE abortions. So it looks like the change in standards encourages BOTH having kids and having abortions......which means it really is just encouraging personal empowerment. Looks like its you who isn't seeing the big picture.

    Everything in this world in one way or another "comes" from its opposite. Relaxed social attitudes towards sex and birth control came from an earlier time of sexual repression. Having kids out of wedlock being ok came from an earlier time when it wasn't. Having an abortion and not feeling ashamed about it came from an earlier time when your parents told the neighbors you were at boarding school because they were ashamed of both the bastard child and the shame of having an abortion.


    Thats rich coming from somebody asking me to take his parents word as gospel for all hippies in the USA.....and especially when your statement was....

    do i see the word many or most in your statement? Nope I see you making an ABSOLUTE statement.

    Obeying the law is not an option in this country......sure each party can say I don't politically support that law, each party can work towards changing the law, but that doesn't exempt them from it in its current state. Having a commonlaw for the country would be pointless if some could disobey it simply because of there personal politics. Personal politics aside, the draft dodgers weren't gov't politicians either. Nor were they JUST saying I do not politically support that law. They took it a step further and broke the law.....which is why they had to DODGE the goverment by moving to canada, mexico, or lying about sexual preference.


    Thats strike three in my book....
     
  15. ShuggaMagnolia

    ShuggaMagnolia Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dude, fucking drop it, your wrong, and have taken everything out of context, and i'm tired of having to put everything straight for you, any person with half a brain will tell you you're wrong, along with any old hippie who lived through it, I didn't say my folks word was gospel, or anything to that effect, its plain US history, a subject you are obviously not familiar with at all. And the draft dodgers weren't politician because they were my age in the 60s, they became the politicians of today. Do you think we just keep the same people in their whole lives? You think there are 95 year old senators filling our government, do you suppose the US is ran by the geriatric? Are you serious, you ass clown? I'm done arguing with you. You have proven here what a great, glorious, splendid, shining jackass you are. And don't use baseball cliche's anymore, you said "baseball bat slugger" you mental deviant. Just drop it asshole, go wash the sand out of your vagina you irritable little whore.
     
  16. ShuggaMagnolia

    ShuggaMagnolia Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, now that I'm ignoring all those who think its fun to argue blindly with broquet statements. I will restate my plight.
    Recently our government has been instituting laws that are violating our constitution, and bush is making it very hard for liberal people, not just hippies to exist.
    5 years ago we could assemble freely on public land, as many people as we could fit, but bush passed a law that requires that if more than 75 people are present on public land that everyone must register with the government so they can moniter us.
    The patriot act makes it legal for the government to arbitrarily and without warning detain you, search you, put you in jail without trial,moniter your phone, emails, internet activity, financial activity. Our government is abusing POWs. Christianity has now assimilated into our government. We feel a fascist state is about to overtake our country and we are trying to escape. And even as I write this the gestapo could be watching.......I really want help, not to argue.
     
  17. koopa

    koopa De Kuil Krue Hipster

    Messages:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    5
    Glad to know your responses are getting desperate. Exactly how am I wrong? Our entire argument has centered around you telling me that no hippie became a yuppie..........the encyclopedia begs to differ with you, as do I.


    What has been taken out of context? I simply go through your most recent post in a linear fashion and respond to your statements. I show how you contradict yourself. Furthermore, the original context is in previous posts of the same thread. So everybody can read all the posts and make a judgement, nothing is being misconstrued.

    If you took that literally you are a dolt. You said that draft dodgers weren't anti-goverment because they were democrats and I said they were anti-government. You then said that bi partisan politics was the reason they weren't. I said regardless of your political agenda your still required to obey the current law. Hence, my implication that EVEN IF they were politicians at the time they would not be exempt from the law. Nor would anybodies "personal politics" make them exempt from any law...

    Heres the quote....don't go saying it came out of context.

    Of course you are done, your not making any progress. Thats why you don't address three quarters of my responses. I've got plenty to fire back at you everytime, that much is evident. So if you don't like baseball we will go with a firing squad........your like a bleeding man in the dark with glowing blood trying to dodge light seeking bullets. Maybe you should just dodge drafts?


    Its also funny how you thanked me a few posts ago and now I'm an asshole with sand in my vagina.....YET ANOTHER CONTRADICTION
     
  18. mopperm1

    mopperm1 Member

    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    0
    holy shit!! LO-fucking-L LOL:D Can't wait to get stoned with you again koopa!....shugga: just move to canada with your rabbit, much closer.....europe treats their immigrants worse than we do and they love to eat rabbit...party on.
     
  19. koopa

    koopa De Kuil Krue Hipster

    Messages:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    5
    the feelings mutual my friend!
     
  20. furball666

    furball666 Member

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    0
    mopperm1 how does it make me an idiot trying to stay in the topic and not just laughing at questions?

    once again we are having a fucking stupid dedate about hippies orginalities. who cares just be yourself do things your way and dont try to look in the past but future.

    shugga: states isnt the only place getting all the new facist laws. We in europe get plenty of them. As surprisingly does netherlands like the new law to allways keep id with you as not being illeagal alien or facing 50e fine.

    bush goverment has nothing to do with christianity realy. christianity principles say no to war and tell to turn the other cheek.

    but like through the ages ppl use religion as an excuse to war.

    i dont know much about american inner politics but i would like to know how they convinced central america of bush being a godsent and not just a puppet he is.

    dutch have excellent tolerance to diffirent ppl and how they dress and act just dont be rude and other ppl wont be rude to you.

    why has this forum become a place of hostility. it's not wrong to ask questions. (we get a lot of sarcasm lately)

    netherlands has a lot less crime than states and is much safer. just watch out for skilled pickpockets in amsterdam.

    the easiest way to move into holland would probably to get some other country's eu citizen ship and then move to holland as you dont need a working permit being part of the eu and can stay as long as you like. (god bless EU)

    if you want to bring a pet over seas it has to go quarantine for few weeks.

    people in europe are usualy more free minded about religion so that wont be a problem.

    But you still have to learn dutch if you want to get a job in there.
    but since your young and smart that probably wont be much of a problem when your allready living in there.

    about apathy and drugs: yeah thats a way for ppl to survive in a world gone mad.

    P.S: shugga you should learn that if someone thinks diffirent than you that he isnt automaticly a sandy asshole. (learn from debates listen to what others have to say then give out your own opinion about stuff)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice