False Rape Allegations

You're right, a fair trial and the victims rights dont have to collide, but if they ever do, the right to a fair trial must trump those of the victims rights.

If a woman 'feels' she is forced, but says nothing and goes along with it and gives no sign that she is against it or doesnt want it, is it rape? I dont think so, there needs to be communication saying she doesnt want it.

And of course, it doesnt matter what the woman wears, or if she's naked. No one has the right to force her to have sex. However, lets remember that men can be raped by women too.

Sexual abuse laws should cover non consensual victims(i.e. children), as it stands now, it also affects people who want consensual relations. Remember the sodomy laws that were struck down by the supreme court? Those were rarely if ever enforced, yet they were see as discriminatory against gays.

I take it the cousins you know who married arent first(or maybe also second) since that would be illegal. I dont see why anyone cares what two consenting adults do.


You can't compare two consensual acts like incest and homosexuality to sexual assault and abuse.

Consensual acts of sex shouldnt be against the law, regardless of whether people think they are moral or not. I dont see the difference with a christian who is against homosexuality becuase he believes it to be wrong than it is for a gay person to be against polygamy or incest.

 

You haven't provided any evidence that he's a pedophile. You post information in which Farrell suggests that there is evidence that some people who engage in incestual relations don't view it as negative. He's just relating what researchers have uncovered. I'm not denying that he's anything, but I want to see legitimate proof that he is something before I'll consider him to be that something.

 

Again with the reading-comprehension problem. I've clearly stated that I don't condone incest. I'm not sure how any intelligent person can claim that my making a factual statement (that incest is a consentual act) about something means that I approve of that conduct. By your logic, if I stated that "murders occur on a daily basis," it would essentially mean that I condone murder. That's stupid.

 

But that's your subjective opinion. If studies show that some people find incest to be healthy, and readily participate in such relationships, and are good, upstanding, hardworking and productive members of society, then shouldn't they be allowed to practice their lifestyle? Homosexuality has generally been considered to be "sick" and "unhealthy" by society, yet you seem to have no problem with this.

 

I'm just curious: what right do you have for determining what is "normal" and "destructive behaviour". It used to be that homosexuality was considered to be "abnormal" and "destructive" to both the individual and society. Yet now homosexuality is widely accepted, and homosexuals--we are told--are no more likely to be self-destructive or destructive to society. Indeed, many are very productive members of society.

 

But that's the thing; these people were NOT considered "normal" at one time, and as such lived miserable lives on the fringes of society. As a result, they no doubt also had "serious psychiatric problems" and led reckless, destructive lifestyles. Ever since the 1960s, however, there has been increasing acceptance of homosexuality, and as a result, homosexuals are now able to be "well adjusted" people. So the fact that people who engage in incest are not "upstanding citizens" may have more to do with the way that society discriminates aganst them, than the "abnormal" aspect of their lifestyle.

Incidently, you discredit your own argument when you equate pedophelia with incest. These are by definition two quite different things.

 

Exactly.

 

Oh, Lord, you have children?!?!?!?!

 

Actually, they are first cousins. They went to another state to marry. Some states allow it. (I think it wa New Jersey, but I am not sure)

I really hate this scenario game, because it isn't as simple as that. If a woman doesn't object, but still feels forced is it rape? Well I don't know...is the person raping her a complete stranger? Has he threatened her? Does she feel comfortable enough to object?

I am reminded of a case i saw on America's Most Wanted, where a woman was abducted by two men and raped for hours. She never objected, and completely went along with everything they wanted in complete fear of her life. By the end of it she was able to escape because they didn't think she was a threat. The one man involved that they interviewed said that he had forgotten that this was a woman they had stalked and kidnapped in order to rape. Her actions likely saved her life. That woman was devastated, she was a victim of rape, and she was safer to not object.

I understand that women and men don't always communicate so well with eachother, and signals get mixed all the time. Problem is, it can't be an excuse for a man violating a woman, ever. If it is better for a man to play it safe rather than sorry, then so be it, if that is what it takes for women to stop suffering this kind of abuse.

So next time you drunk at a party with a trampy girl fawning all over you, wait until she sobers up before you start trying to get your jollies. Even if you think she wants it. It wouldn't be the end of the world...

 

dont worry about me, i take care of myself very well.

If you're afraid for your life, you obviously cant give consent. I wouldnt at all consider abduction to be CONSENSUAL. I am talking more about bf/gf examples.

There are clear cut examples of where its rape and when its not. The problem is the gray area. It is not normal for women to be afraid for their lives when they go home with smeone they met, they may however feel pressured into having sex. No one disputes this, it happens everyday. The question is, if the woman makes no effort to say no and goes along with it, but still feels pressured into having sex, is it rape? I dont think it is, unless she says no

 

I have presented PLENTY of information that Farrell is a pedophile, and that he considers incest OK. READ! He's your only reference for your beleifs.

Megara, READ, my references are not "bullshit" they are totally acceptable and relevent.

BULLSHIT. Incest never begins when both parties are adults. If it does occur in adults, it is due to a long term incestuous relationship which BEGAN when the victim was a child. You can have pedophila without incest, however INCEST ALWAYS BEGINS WITH PEDOPHILA, when it is parent/child type.

Hey, jiimaan, Megara, get your BS in Psychology, get your Master's in Child Development, work with children for several decades, have a family and get back to me on this issue. Until then neither of you has a point of reference. (Being childless and partnerless.) Besides the word of pedophiles like Farrell. Megara, I know you are capable of rational interpretation. I am pretty sure you are NOT a pedophile. Why stick up for these people? THINK for yourself. Jiimaan isn't doing YOU any favors.

 

WHOA, stop right there

I find pedophilia disgusting, i find incest disgusting, not to mention many numerous things that are legal i consider disgusting.

The point is being consistant.

If you use the argument that 'you shouldnt legislate the bedroom' or its discrimination not to let gays marry, then you can also make those arguments for incest and polygamy.

Pedophilia should NEVER be legal since it involves kids. It is disgusting and is one of the few crimes i think people should get life in jail for.

 

Well I ment 'you' as people in general, not YOU.

Sexual relationships can be very complicated, there is no doubt about that.

This thread is about false allegations. I was trying to make it clear that just because a woman drops charges does not mean she wasn't raped. I was also trying to make it clear that rape isn't all black and white (which you seem to agree with) and that the gray area cannot be "what-if'd" so much because every situation is different.

Trying to say that 41% of rape claims are false is absurd, and completely unprovable. It is the molding of statistics to fit someone's sick point of view that rape is a problem exaggerated by feminists. And we shouldn't be using these numbers that way.

Turn it around, why did 41% of women in this town drop these charges? What caused them to not continue to prosecute the man whom they felt took advantage of them?

This 41% number does not show that too many women make false claims. What this number shows is that too many women feel like they cannot get justice, or that they don't deserve it, or that it isn't worth it. Combine the 41% number with the masses of women who don't even report rape, and it tells me that the number doesn't show that women are making false allegations, it shows that women feel like they cant get, or it isn't worth getting justice.

 

Sera makes a lot of sense. The facts simply support that 41% of rape allegations are false. All the data that is beleivable says closer to 2-4%.

Megara, I KNOW you beleive this. And I am aware that you cannot "legislate morality" but incest and pedophila are inextricable entwined. When you talk to incest survivors NONE of them tell you the thing happend AFTER they came of age, they were assaulted, by a family member as a CHILD! I KNOW you think pedophiles are sickos! And incestors are by and large all pedophiles. You cannot separate the two.

Thank you for your input, Sera. Womyn often drop charges not because they "lied" but because they KNOW their entire sex life will be put on the stand, they KNOW the perp has more rights than the victim does, they KNOW that even if the rapist gets time in jail (and that doesn't happen often) he will be out in no time at all.

 

I find all statistics to be flawed since you can play with the numbers and make them say whatever you want. I highly doubt the number is 41%, that seems too high. When you consider the number of rapes in this country, if 2% are reported falsely, thats a lot of people who could be sitting in jail for something they didnt do. Whether its 2% or 41%, its an issue that needs to be addressed, and the rights of the defendant must be defended.

edit: no one wants to turn off women from reporting rapes. But i fully believe that if someone is sent to jail, they need to have a fair trial.

Maggie:

I separate incest and pedophilia. While i would agree that the vast majority of incest is most likely father/daughter(under 16/18), i dont believe all is. As homosexuals say, you can't help who you fall in love with. I dont want pedophilia to be legal, its disgusting. However, I dont think that government should have the right to tell consenting adults what they can and cannot do in the bedroom.

 

Why don't you read the article yourself and find out how the Dr. Kanin arrived at his conclusions. Is that so difficult to do?

 

*Yawn*

<stating the obvious>

You people realize that this is a circular discussion, right?

Though I must admit... Boxing matches between MaggieSugar and jiimaan, have always been fairly amusing...

Oh and to stay on topic... My opinion on people falsely claiming rape is that it is terrible and wrong. If it is because the woman is a b*tch and is just trying to castrate a man publicly, she should be prosecuted-and I for one would have sued the heck out of her, if she had done it to me. If it is a matter of a claim being taken back, due to the ineffectiveness of our justice system-then that is a sad state of affairs. My experience is the latter. Both of my rapes went unreported, because I had no faith in the justice system. *shrug* And I have no opinion on statistics, so I will not comment on this.

 

Regarding the 2% Myth:

"The media has largely ignored these studies and experts and has instead promoted the notion that only 2% of rape allegations are false. This figure was made famous by feminist Susan Brownmiller in her 1975 book Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape. Brownmiller was relaying the alleged comments of a New York judge concerning the rate of false rape accusations in a New York City police precinct in 1974."

Please see post #30 for the entire article. This is just another example of how feminists use shoddy evidence to substantiate their bigotted theories.

I personally find it extremely hypocritical and offensive that you would downplay something so serious. If 40% of women were falsely accused of rape, and a man came on here and said that it was really just 2%, you would be hysterically irrate.

 

Maybe you don't understand english...but It has been explained numerous times how that 41% number is flawed. So please stop repeating yourself.

 

Oh, I see, now we're not "qualified" to discuss this issue, are we. Well, sorry, but Hipforums isn't actually an academic institution, rather a public forum where people should be allowed to freely express their opinions, because that's what our society is all about. Besides, I'm not sure that you're really justified in expecting people to be "qualified" for discussing this topic, when you yourself have a basic reading-comprehension problem. Clearly if you can't properly understand some of the literature I've posted here, confuse definitions and ignore information that doesn't suit you, you yourself really aren't all that qualified for much. I guess you really think yourself smart because you went to some backwoods community college and took a psych course or two, well, sorry, but that doesn't mean all that much, so I wouldn't go around making yourself out to be some sort of "expert".