I also wanted to add another point to prove that War is Murder. Where the people who died in 9/11 attacked murdered??? Yes they were. A group of people basically waged war on our country for what they perceive as noble. The people who died in those buildings were murdered, and perhaps those who did those horrific acts saw it as something good and not even close to murder. Dont you see? So when we go to those countries trying to do what we think is noble and ture, the people we are fighting are seeing us as murdering them. Think of all those babies, and civilians that were MURDERED. It is sad when we forget that War is Murder, and it actually REAL HUMAN BEINGS WITH LIVES AND FAMILIES WHO LOVE that is being killed.
I guess I have to see this film, but I'll try to find it hacked on the net. I don't see myself paying moore any money to see it. I keep seeing people talking about the 7min that Bush did nothing as some great big mistake. Maybe I'm missing something(having not seen the film yet), but Bush could do nothing in that 7min or hours. By that time they had the planes and nothing could be done to stop them from hitting the buildings. Other then shooting the planes down and looking like a killer of americans, he could take no action. Do you think him grounding all planes in America stopped anything? The fools that took over the planes were not going to land because Bush or any American told them to. When I heard about the planes hitting the towers, I was in shock for hours. The fact that he recoverd in 7min blows my mind. It took me a long time that day to understand how many people were killed. Everyones opinion on the war will be different, but don't blame Bush for anything that happend on 9/11. Clinton was in office when Bin laddy hit the tower the 1st time with a car bomb. Why is he not to blame for all this? In the eyes of the terrorist, we are all at fault. You, me, him, all americans. Hippies or not. Bob
I'm sorry, but some of the stuff being said is here so completely outlandish that it's actually worth removing. Republican, I'm assuming that you're not very educated judging from your unfounded accusations and inability to spell accurately, if you can find me a source where Michael Moore said he wished more republicans would have died, I'd like to see that, because I don't buy it for a second. Just see the movie, then ramble all you want. Now, you're just making a complete ass out of yourself and annoying those who are seeking true information.
your just a gear in the machine, man, a gear in the machine. not even that... maybe a cog on the wheel? the point is,i doubt any of these politicians give more than a thought of relief that their actually being supported. seriously though. i wish i could appreciate your passion for republicanism... but being unable to see both sides seriously hinders rationality. to that extent, having seen moore's movie, i agree that it has the potential to change opinions, but i do think that information from an extremist on either side must be taken with a grain of salt. i'd be interested to see a Bush-funded movie if they'd like to counter moore, if only to see how on earth they would respond.
Life is short. People shouldn't kill each other. Why? What's the point we all are going to die, why do you want to speed up the process?? I don't like politics, I think they are bullshit. I don't really care about this movie, but I don't see any harm of it. Moore is just speaking his opinion, if you have a problem about it, tell him. That's one of our rights as an american and alot of people are trying to take that away from him. I don't think that's right or fair. Come on people now smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now =)
I havn't said that that was my friend... look at the poast.. he wanted to troll.. I just say simply that its not going to effect the election.. and you should know my education is posibly better than yours.. I just dont give a damn about spelling.. Im a 10th grader who goes to a privet school where everyclass is a honors class.. and I take AP classes.. Infact I am head dellagate in Model UN, I have been since my freshmen year.. I have won awards at every conference sooo far.. I am starting on the High School Football Team and I have since the lastgame of my freshmen year.. not because of strenth but because Im smart and I care.. strenth just helps... also here "If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who did not vote for them! Boston, New York, D.C., and the planes destination in California - these were places that voted against bush! Why kill them?" thats the quote from Moore's website September 12, 2001 But let me ask you why would u judge a person on there spelling... that prooves u have no real responce to my arguements... you assume that I like war.. thats my friend.. he plans on joining millitary for fun, If i did it would be because of honor.. I dont like killing people... but its not my idea.. war has happend for the whole time humanity has existed... Its not going away.. Im not a war monguor.. I just know that many leaders in the middle east are.. Bush does care about the people... Not about me specificaly because there are millions of Americans... But he does care... he cares about those in Iraq.. I know I do.. I have felt bad for them.. I have.. I will not stand for a Leftwing world where no wars are fought.. because then you know what? someone is being suppressed.. There is no rest for the weary.. we will fight this war.. we will fight more.. we will continue for ever.. I dont like it but its our responcibility to save the world because we have no right to waist our power.. or else we will become as corrupt and evil as they.. and as for a Bush funded movie, thats not a bad Idea and Im glad your open to that idea.. that proves you are a good person that u can see both sides to at least an extent.. I always try to do that.. but it is hard.. we should all try and be more moderate.. no party is right 100% of the time and mayn issues are too gray for aney one to be correct... rules of engagement make us not fire unless fired apon.. they want to shoot us so we shoot back.. wars like his one are multi-lateral.. both sides are fighting.. good (US) and evil(terrorists, not the Iraqi army they had the right to defend the bad man and many are forced).... now first I want to say terrorists are not evil because they themselves are... they were rased with lies about America.. Its the dictators in power who are bad not the suicide bombers ect...... but I will say this war cant be murdur because America is good.. we are mostly good people and as a whole we are... yes they were.. that wasn't war, the rules of engagement and many treties deny countries to sloughter innocents... that was what 9/11 was.. the penegon was an act of war.. the trade center wasn't... to understand war you must studey it.. I agree killing is bad.. but war isn't murder.. Its wrong but not murder... and one thing important to do is to not not listen to Moore but listen to the 9/11 commities who said that Rumesfeld ordere the planes shot down but the communication systems fu*ked up.. I agree lol I'm poor and thats something Im not gonna spend cash on..
hey , InTheFlesh.... i love your signature. great Doors reference. I still think war is murder. Nobody has the right to kill an innocent person and innocent people do die against their will.
lets have a vote, are you for or against terrorism?____ This is all I hear over and over. "war is murder, people shouldn't kill eachother......." I just think people should not fly airplanes into big buildings full of people. Note: nobody has done that or anything close to that after 9/11 on US soil Bob<---happy Bush took the fight to them and got it out of my back yard
so... lemme get this straight. flying planes into buildings, exploding innocent people with planes = terrorism flying planes over buildings, exploding innocent people with bombs = ? retributioN? revenge? justice? they're still families. they're still people trying to live.
Amen. well I agree.. but we have killed very few innocents and that was colateral damage.. they killed thousands in one day.. sure we shouldn't kill inocents.. so we dont... we target millitary personel.. but now we have to target terrorists who could look like innocents so it is a difficult fight.. IMHO we need to find 1,000 of the craziest SOBs who are nigh crazey and we train them for counter-terrorism and everything else like rural combat.. and when they can singlehandedly kill like 10 people while unarmed and they have ak47s then we deploy them in the middle east.. we would win.. the only reason we have problems is small military budget and poorly trained soldiers(who are still the best in the world.. there just not trained the correct way..) the problem is we are set up in a cold war era defence.. basicly we could stop any millitary easily.. but we are not trained to stop gurrilla warfare.. I could win a war agest most countries as commander if u gave me 50,000 men w/ ak47s and RPGs.. no kevlar.. we dont need it.. too heavy.. my point is.. that our Cold War Era defence is the problem and Bush is doin what he can to fix that, but he is no Reagan.. he and Kerry need to pospone the election 4 yrs and give the presidency to Rumsfeld.. mabe Colen Powell.. what we need isn't a Leftest.. or Bush for president.. there too week.. dont get me wrong.. Bush is a great guy.. but No Ronald Reagan.. IMHO if 100 civilans have to die to liberalte 25,374,691 i think its worth it...
that's not even the point, he said the U.S. military "doesn't kill civilians". I can think of a few websites that show torn limbs from little babies...I guess in this jackass's mind, babies aren't considered "civilians". Oh, and that new Moore film Fahrenheit 9/11...more graphic images of innocent people being maimed and slaughtered by the U.S. imperialist machine. "Republican" should do some research and learn something before spouting outrages inaccuracies as though they are fact. He's making himself look quite the fool. No surprise, though.
anyway i'm done arguing with a bunch of 16 year olds (no offense to those who are open minded and mature). I'm talking about the ones like "republican" who believes what he believes ONLY because of what OTHER people have told him to believe. For people who want to learn the truth, here are a few good websites to start with. And make the "links" section of every site your best friend...you'll realize how big this movement is :-D for activism and direct action, check out: www.abolishthebank.org www.rncnotwelcome.org www.counterconvention.org www.infoshop.org for alternative media (what the mainstream media doesn't want you to know): www.indymedia.org www.propagandamatrix.com www.michaelmoore.com (and his links) www.commondreams.org www.leftturn.org www.zmag.org and of course, growing numbers of countless links
Well your one to talk about "what believe ONLY because of what OTHER people have told [ME] to believe." while Ur watching Moore’s movie.. You watch the Leftist media.. Well let m tell you something.. Many Leftist say 9/11 was Bush's fault, you ask me why should I disagree? Well let me tell you.. The 9/11 commission.. That’s right a commission composed of mostly liberals.. Has determined that Rumsfeld and Bush ordered the planes shot down.. 4 minutes (maybe 5) before impact.. The message got to the pilots after the 1st plane hit.... 9/11 had sooooo much more to do with our unprepared ness... unprepared ness that came from the Clinton administration... Speaking of Clinton.. Have u seen Black Hawk Down? Have you read about Mogadishu? More women and children were killed in one night than in the year in Iraq...... "18 American soldiers and more than 350 local Somali militia and citizens [died]" (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/October_3_1993_Battle_of_Mogadishu) Well that was in one day.. Over 1000 Somali citizens died in our peace keeping missions.. That Includes women and Children.. Also do you want to know why? The women and children were up in arms agents us.. Did u protest Mogadishu? I didn't I supported Clinton because It was a good thing to get involved in... Not because of casualties but because of why we were there, to stop the genocide going on... Also you attack Bush for being an Imperialist and attacking countries and being attacked.. Well look at all the democrats who have screwed up the Military... Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921): Lusitania sinking Franklin Roosevelt (1933-45): Pearl Harbor attacks Harry Truman (1945-53): aided in forming the United Nations John Kennedy (1961-63): Bay of Pigs incident Lyndon Johnson (1963-69): Withdrawal of U.S. soldiers from VietNam Jimmy Carter (1977-81): Desert One incident William Clinton (1993-2001): U.S. Army deaths in Somalia Here's the problem: the U.S. Marines had the area under control under H.W.'s orders. However, Clinton pulled them out and instead sent in Rangers and *ahem* Delta Force. During the transfer, Aidid was able to reequip and gather support. Then, the military requested AC-130 gunships to give air support that would be accurate and powerful yet difficult to hit with RPGs. Clinton denied the request, saying that it was not necessary. Guess your beloved taxes had better uses than our soldiers' lives, eh, Bubba? According to Blackhawk pilot Mike Durant in his excellent book In the Company of Heroes, had Clinton agreed to send AC-130s, evacuation of the first downed helicopter site would have been faster and safer, meaning fewer casualties and a faster mission. Durant himself would probably not have been blown out of the sky that day by an RPG because the mission would have been finished before he was hit. Instead, inability to land evacuation and reinforcement helicopters in the city meant that all rescue forces had to move on the ground, the HMMWV column having trouble in the blocked and dangerous streets and the men on foot under constant fire. The AC-130s could have covered the site with precise fire, allowing helicopters in, but no such fire support was available. So, yes, Clinton did have plenty to do with the loss of the G.I.s. this is only naming one falure perpresident because I only have so much time... this is info I have gotten of http://undauntedcoalition.homestead.com/madlibs.html my good friends site.. all facts are gotten from very reliable sources... now I will tell you simply this.. no president is right 100% of the time.. And if you bash Bush for his posible flaws.. I have a large list of people I can bash with good arguements... to tell you the truth tho... not all Liberal presidents have been bad.. FDR would be in my top 5 presidents... he was a good man.. Jimmy carted may have been a bad president but he was a good man.... I don’t think there is anything wrong w/ being a bleeding heart liberal.. the problem is not everyone is.. so you will be attacked.. and killed as a country... as for Moore.. in like 30 hours I will watch his movie.. Not because I want to but so I understand it.. I do understand your points.. I can only repeat what I hear about Moore’s Movie.... and because of that I'll try and bare the movie...
let me rephrase what I said.. I meant that we do not target civilians... Unlike most armies.. we do Our best to follow all the Rules of engagement.. While our enemies suicide bomb each other and kill innocents left and right(directions not the political meaning).. What I don’t like is that our media makes big deals about the colateral damage by us, the ones who try and avoid it.. while not ever talking about palatines suicide-bombings w/ have caused many deaths of children... what no one seems to get about collateral is that we are not shooting civilians, they sometimes are killed in bombings.. the same has happened since bombs were invented for WWII but the fact it we in WWII bombed cities destroying houses... now when we bomb cities we are targeting military targets... You can only ask for soooo much before you become a hypocrite.. and many Leftists are Hypocrites.. and I’m not saying I’m never a hypocrite, I try not to.. but by saying that you are 100% a hypocrite who supports Liberal "Peace keeping Missions" that has almost all failed but fail to support the war in Iraq that has freed the oppressed.. Frankly I don’t give a damn what you think as long as I don’t have to put up with it.. America has gone from a country where people respect the presidency no matter the party.. to a country that is almost in anarchy under a republican.. Why is this? because of the f**king Liberal media that doesn’t tell the truth.. and freaks out when Fox occasionally does.. Fox is often correct.. but they are still too Liberally biased.. not the shows.. those are commentary and are supposed to be biased like Larry King on CNN.. I’m talking about the actual news... I have seen so many stories not brought up by any body.. Like the fact that Kerry's daughter went to the cans film festival in a see through dress.. that is terrible... why u ask? because It is bad no canadates daughter needs to do that is inappropriate for a canadates child.. Now I don’t get how you can stand for hypocrisy.. but I wont.. I respect the presidency.. Clinton.. Carter.. or Bush... I believe that is the good thing to do.. I am an American.. and I am not going to try and destroy my country.. Every time we protest.. every time a movie like Moore's comes out.. we look week we look like we hate out government and we are susceptible to attack... If you want truth go to these links www.protestwarrior.com http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/thefront http://www.drudgereport.com/ www.foxnews.com (a little biased o the Left but as close as it gets to the truth..) http://www.billoreilly.com/ www.coxandforkum.com (not conservitives.. just capitolists who speak the truth..) www.bowlingfortruth.com http://undauntedcoalition.homestead.com/hq.html www.moorelies.com mooreexposed.com www.imao.us
you know, with that much media attention, if this was lies, chances are the government would do something. especially if it was slander before a presidential election. the fact that he isn't in trouble says something in my opinion. also, john kerry's daughter is old enough to make her own decisions. she is not john kerry, just raised by him. her desicions are not necessarily his. i want proof that those websites you listed are truthful as well. the internet has a tendency to be an inaccurate source. that was bad? would you be expecting airplanes to be hijacked and flown into buildings? yes, there was a breifing about it that was given to the president, but even if you knew something was going to happen involving airplanes, you you really expect them to crash them into a major building?
proove it. let's see your source. i suppose there's the vaguest chance rummy did made an ordre, but it's a widely known fact taht bush was reading to children before and after the planes struck. i agree with whoever said it... i'm done with this arguing. republican, you sure have a lot of time to spend trying to convince a mainly liberal forum that you're right, and only your views are right. you said it yourself it's good to be able to see both sides, so maybe you should stop posting thousands of words and SEE the moore movie if only to know what you're arguing against. okay i'm done. i'll check back for your source on the rumsfeld/bush order, but yeah. this arguments is really pointless and time consuming.
Wow....Republican, your in the 10th grade huh? And you go to a private school? Then it's pretty fucking obvious you are completely ignorant. I dont give a flying fuck about you're AP classes and you being a scholar.. That just shows more that you are a TOOL to the system and obviously are completely unaware of what's going on around you. You probably get you're facts from FOX news or some conservative online site, because you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. You're friend's statement was also one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. I'm not even gonna waste my time with you're fucking rich boy 16 year old faggot ass.. You think you have all the answers? well get off these forums you pretentious piece of shit.
hey all I went opening night (well opening night here, it was in the city earlier, wasnt it?) anywho, went friday night and it was great. Really good movie, and i thought all the cars with Kerry bumper stickers on the way out of the lot was hysterical/ fit perfectly... go see it!
