Explain this whole "jesus died for your sins" thing to me..

ditto...

 

No, you would not be content.

If you are proposing a 'what if' scenario, then stick with it throughout.

'IF' the Dalai Lama and Gandi 'were' to realise that they were unfit to sit in Gods Kingdom (were flawed) and that they only needed to accept Christs free gift (free pass) into Eternity

And

They deliberatley chose to reject it.

Then you have nothing to talk about anymore because Gandi and The Dalai Lama will have decided themselves NOT to enter Heaven.

But yes.. to 'sum up' the idea: The Dalai Lama and Gandi are not righteous enough to enter into Gods perfect eternal dimension.

Neither are you or I.

All this is sticking with your 'What IF' scenario.
Not bailing on it half way through.

 

Half of you don't seem to have a concept of Heaven. We're not children anymore. Heaven cannot be described as a place where people who don't do bad things go. It is much more complex than that.

 

Hm.. but if I'd translate that to my home.. among my friends are people that commited murder (I have prison penpals that I came to consider my friends), I also know men that have sex with other men and whom I consider to be friends... and at the same time I don't like sitting around being lectured about God by bible thumpers, so I wouldn't want any fundy religious people in my home.. plus I'm kinda coldish so I like to turn up the heating, especially in winter.

Oh my... that must mean.. my home is the 'hell' as described in the Bible.. and since I was the first to live here and take care of the place that must mean..

I'M SATAN!

Just playing with you analogy girl

 

but your analogy makes no point anyway, and she didnt use an analogy in that post.

anyway Its obvious that god is a right prick, i mean, the most important aspect of any person, in gods eyes, is that they believe in him! how egotistical and evil, to deny people who are the best examples of all the goodness preached by the church but doesnt live up to God's 'righteous' standards. Believing in god makes you no more good than the person next to you, so why should it be the most important factor in deciding who deserves to go to heaven? If god was truelly benevolent then he would let peoploe into heaven according to their actual righteousness and not how much they believe in him, for any god would be smart enough to know that the nicest people in the world are -probably- not christian! God needs to get his priorities straight, and make it clear whether he thinks being a good person is more or less important than fulfilling his ego.

 

Hey!

Epiphany changed her post.. I was wondering why I saw a long one but when I hit the 'quote' button it only showed a shorter one.. I guess she realised that analogy sucked as well.. hehehehe.. she made a comparisson to her wanting her friends in her home and God wanting his homies closeby.. sth like that. I was just expanding on that thought to point out that it doesn't work that way

 

I deleted it because I felt that it didn't really express what I was trying to say.

I have friends who have been around the block more than a few times. The point is, they are my friends. They know me. They acknowledge me. People who do not even acknowledge God's presence think that because they do some good deeds in life and they are decent people, that it guarantees them a spot in Heaven. God isn't going to welcome you with open arms when you don't know him. That was what I was using the analogy for. There are good people in the world, but not all of them will be coming to my house because they do not know me. It is the same thing with Heaven.

 

You've got it all wrong... most people (unlike you) don't do good things to get into heaven... they do good things - BECAUSE THEY WANT TO - because they feel it's the right thing to do.

You, on the other hand, are sucking up to god, doing good things because you know you'll be rewarded with heaven.. It's quite sickening to be honest.

(just a side point, I don't believe in heaven or hell... but does that mean I go around doing bad things? Well, that all depends on your definition of "bad".. for example.. I've never killed anyone, and I don't plan on killing anyone...... but I also masturbate.. and that's a sin.. according to most christians... am I good dooer or a bad dooer? that's up to you to decide, just remember this... i don't do what I do to try and suck up to god and get into heaven...)

 

OOOOOHHHHHHHHH OK... I think I've got it now, know god... live your life how you want to, but then repent for your sins before you die, and you'll get into heaven... sounds good to me..

After all, that must be a far better way than living a good life for your whole life.... and then NOT getting into heaven...

As I have said before, and will say again... god sounds like an asshole.

 

Amanda, you are definately starting to get it.

In the Christian concept, you can not 'do works' to earn yourself into Heaven.
Its impossible to work or earn your way to salvation and enlightenment.

Now its fair enough to ask the question: "So, someone can live like the Devil and then simply accept Christs Righteousness (in lieu of their own) and they can get to Heaven?!"

The answer is No.
Heres why its a 'No'.

In our scenario, we are also talking about a God who is omnipotent and would certainly know the hearts and minds of people.

So if you have someone who is being insincere, they deliberately lived like the devil and deliberately tried to use Jesus as an 'out'...
That wont do it.

However.. IF your scenario is describing a genuinely sincere person, someone who realises they spent their lives hurting themselves and others.... and they sincerely repent of that lifestyle.. and sincerely accept Christs forgiveness ....

Then yes.. they may very well go onto glory as if they were 'sinless' - even on their deathbed.

In the Christian scenario - Good works are the 'side effect' of living right with God.
They themselves attain the Christian nothing other than to do good works because .. they are good to do, of course.

ps. Masterbation is not a sin.
[I dont know of any Christian denom that thinks that]
Sorry to take that righteous indignation away from you.

 

This is all very good, except for one thing... I don't believe in god...

I don't do my good deeds to suck up to god, I also don't do my good deed as a 'side effect' of working for god.. I do my good deeds because of who I am...

(Oh, and masturbation might not be a sin for you, but I know lots of christans that think it is - oh, but that's the whole "intrepertation" thing again, right? )

 

Euhm... I don't know about what it's like on your end of the world.. but over here in Holland (and apparently in the UK) it is considerd a sin by a whole range of denominations.. I was raised Roman Catholic and it was a sin.. an ex boyfriend was raised Protestant and it was considered a sin.. and those are two of the most lenient denominations here, we also have the 'strict reformed' ones (don't know if that's the correct english term) that still make the women wear skirts and everything..

But yeay for you wanking without having to feel guilty!

 

A nice quote to back up the fact that the Bible condemns lust and we all know masterbation is lust, right?

For a man in a relationship, it's a sin to even look at a woman with lust, let alone fantasize over one while wanking or looking at porn:

Matthew 5:27-28
27 "You have heard that it was said, "you shall not commit adultery"; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


And although the Bible isn't too clear on masturbation for singles it is more than clear on lust.. but yeah, that depends on how you interpret stuff I guess. Plus it's good for your prostate to get the juices flowing every now and again, prevents you from getting prostate cancer on a later age.

 

I don't think the current Dalai Lama chose this...He would have been reborn from the subseuent Lama's before him, and thus, would have existed before the psyical body of Christ

 

Most sins can be traced down to Greed, if you twist them a bit...

 

Actually Burbot, I don't think the line of Dali Lamas goes back as far as the time of Christ.
Although there was some Buddhist missionary activity in Tibet as early as the 2nd century AD, it wasn't until Padmasambhava arrived in the country in 774 AD that the tradition became fully established.
The rule of the Dali Lamas came in in the mid 17th century.

 

well played.....did not know that, and thats why your here, to put fools like myself in my place...

 

There is no biblical reference to masterbation.

In one particular occurance, Onan disobeyed instructions to concieve with a woman by 'spilling his seed on the ground'. It does not even say if he masterbated or simply 'pulled out' (check that but im pretty sure).

Naive people had once described masterbation as 'Onanism' and forgotten that Onan was punished for disobeying orders (regardless of how he did not carry them out).

Now according to Amanda - if some people in some denomination did a piss-poor job of interpreting a scripture.... this means there is no proper interpretation and the whole thing is false.

[I wonder if her fundie standards apply to her Age of Reason too?]

Now.. why do you seem to think these churches teach masterbation is a 'Sin'?

Well, without actually finding their statements on it, I can pretty much tell you they do not actually teach or believe that masterbation 'in itself' is a Sinful act.
What they probably say is something like:
"Where the act itself may be a natural urge or instinct towards developing or 'practicing' for future intercourse - Using Masterbation to 'fantasise' lustful thoughts (like adultery, fornication, people as sex objects etc)
then That is sinful thoughts.

Also.. many churches will make statements about masterbation being hurtful when it becomes a 'habit' or an 'escape' from dealing with lifes problems (instead of going to God in prayer).

So if you really take a look at any of their statements on it - you would find 'something' along those lines.

People like Amanda are deliberately using this 'Masterbation is a Sin' thing in hopes it will make Christ look 'Foolish' and hopes the entire issue of Sin, Repentance and Redemption will be trivialised and reduced to the signifigance of 'Jerking off'

After all.. if *scoff scoff* Masterbation is a Sin then Sin is silly and trivial anyway.
?

 

I don't think you're a fool Burbot.

But if you think you are remember.....

 

Well.. as long as you don't wake up the neighbours and whipe your screen after your done.. I guess it's ok

You're not typing this stuff with one hand now are ya?