Ever Read George Orwell's '1984'?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jimbee68, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Jimbee68

    Jimbee68 Member

    I put it in Politics, because I think it has frightening implications for the world we live in now, specifically the USA and the modern conservative movement in it.

    Mr. Trump certainly comes to mind, and his sockpupet FOX news. But there are other examples too.

    Take The Liberty Amendments - Wikipedia In '1984', the book's protagonist is tortured by the Ministry of Love. Get the irony? The liberty Amendments would do away with direct elections of senators and limit judicial review. They certainly wouldn't increase liberty, except for the rich and intolerant.

    I trust you see my point. Thoughts?

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  2. Joshua Tree

    Joshua Tree Remain In Light

    I saw the film a long time ago but I don't think I ever read the book. I like this quote from it:

  3. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment

  4. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    Trump's method of switching things around is just like what Winston had to put up with from Big Brother. And they wanted Winston to accept East Is West. Everything in the 1984 life was flip flop. Today Trump says CNN and MSNBC are liberal fake news. But the reality is Trump is using this switched it around on the libs as a policy. I don't think he was smart enough to come up with it. I think Putin gave him instructions on the best ways to disrupt American elections, after disrupting several government agencies and turning the DOJ into a tool for the Trump Crime Organization. Before Trump took office the postal service was the best in the world. Now it will not work for a million legal court documents daily. People will not receive law suit documents, divorce documents, inheritance documents, and other process service. In my state the government sends your car registration and driver license through the mail. For the courts and the government to start using something other than USPS, they would have to get the general assembly to vote on a new contract with a private carrier, or two. The new contractors will have to submit bids which the government would approve or reject. What Trump wants is some form of corporate corruption where cheaper turns out to be more expensive, just like 1984. We got a good example when the Trump Administration awarded a no-bid contract to two country boys from Montana to rewire Puerto Rico after that Hurricane, Trump would claim his was was better and cheaper, but his long term intentions would be to make sure the men and women who get excellent pay and benefits and retirement today would be replaced by $9 per hour workers who must live without benefits or retirement of any kind. East is West Winston.
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  5. Joshua Tree

    Joshua Tree Remain In Light

    We have the same thing here in the UK at the moment. We have had a right-wing government since 2010, which has progressively privatised our public national health service, enacted anti-union legislation, cut employment rights, and pushed up the state pension age. And the public keep voting them in, which is what I can't understand.
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  6. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I like George Galloway because he stood against the Iraq war.
  7. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Supporters Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    George Galloway was one of many hundreds of thousands who opposed the war in Iraq, matey. He is now very much a sad, spent force.
  8. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    He did what he could and lots of people respect George for his effort.
  9. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    Republicans are very fond of the book but don't seem to understand what it's about. I've heard Fox mention it so many times.

    A outspoken socialist writes about how evil forced patriotism, never ending wars, and an invincible enemy that is going to take your "freedoms" but probably doesn't even exist are. But it's all exactly like Obama and not the GOP platform.:tearsofjoy:

    Socialism is pretty much anything they don't like and England in the book is not free so it must be socialism not patriotism. Of course anyone not in the GOP must be in the USSR and hate freedom.

    It would be funny if not so sad.

    Orwell’s Doublethink, Alive and Well in Trump’s America

    George Orwell’s 1984 is a dystopian novel about authoritarianism, and is widely understood as a critique of Stalinism and centralized communist states. But Orwell believed that propaganda functioned in both communist and capitalist states alike. His insights about the uses and abuses of propaganda are remarkably relevant when studying American and western “democracies.” Orwell was particularly concerned with thought control, as practiced in corporate media, which had the effect of stifling free and independent inquiry. In line with Orwell’s insight, western societies such as the United States have long been characterized by indoctrination of the masses at the hands of political elites, who dominate national discourse despite the widely celebrated guises of journalistic and personal freedom.

    As Orwell understood, thought control and indoctrination were pervasive in “free” capitalist societies, where “unpopular ideas can be silenced, and inconvenient facts kept dark, without the need for any official ban.”[1] And 1984 is as important as ever in helping us understand how authoritarianism and fascism apply to western politics. More specifically, Orwell’s concept of “doublethink” is relevant when reflecting on the white supremacist, neofascist virtue signaling that is ritualistically engaged in by the Trump administration
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  10. erofant

    erofant Members

    YES YES YES YES !!! I did read 1984 in high school - and I'd venture to say the REPUBLICAN PARTY has taken steps to have it removed from the recommended school reading lists. Guess which state THEY named as the sole state responsible for picking what books are allowed to be taught in school these days .................. rootin' - tootin' wild-west Texas. That bastion of wide open, Republican, no-regulations, make-our-laws-as-we-go gun-slingers who want to shoot any who have a different point of view. U.S. schools get which books THEY say can be taught - and those are not going to teach any view not in lock-step with the REPUBLICAN HARD-LINE CORPORATE IDEOLOGY.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  11. erofant

    erofant Members

    If I live to be 1 million years old ....................... I'll N-E-V-E-R understand how people cannot see how the REPUBLICAN PARTY constantly attacks workers in any business, industry, agency, school system, etc. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY has been doing all they can to eliminate unions for DECADES because they DO NOT want any group of people of a like mind to have strength in numbers, contribute to political campaigns that oppose them in any way, or have any voice to stand against THEIR UNION - the Chamber of Commerce. This is all about POWER ...................... and who has it.

    I'll bet most of the people on here aren't aware that a few years back, a REPUBLICAN in Congress introduced a bill that would prevent any union member from contributing to any political campaign in the U.S. Who the F*UCK do they think they are??? They even want to dictate who & what you can contribute to!!! Does T-H-A-T sound like freedom to anyone???? Or does that sound like the REPUBLICANS want to control workers??? Curtail the freedoms of working people so they have no voice??? But they want no-limit contributions to the REPUBLICAN PARTY as evidenced by their push in the Citizens United campaign in the Supreme Court - which said "corporations" are people and they can contribute any amount they wish. ( For those truly out of touch ............. corporations give HUGE amounts of money to the REPUBLICAN PARTY each election cycle - and just small token amounts to the Democratic party. The Koch Brothers bragged about giving $800 million to the Republican party .................... just those 2 brothers alone ............. but a bunch of individuals who want to contribute voluntarily through their union - the REPUBLICANS want to stop that. They don't want any opposition at all so they try to eliminate ways and sources of any possible opposition to them.

    How is that FREEDOM??? Freedom isn't just for the few rich and privileged. If it becomes that - we then live in the COMMUNIST DICTATORSHIPS of Russia, China, and N. Korea.
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  12. erofant

    erofant Members

    A few years ago, - I believe in Obama's first term - a California REPUBLICAN Representative introduced a bill in Congress that would eliminate ALL EMPLOYER-PAID BENEFITS in the U.S.
    How many knew that FACT ????

    No more health-care insurance contributions, no more retirement contributions to 401-K's, no more paid vacations, no more paid sick days, no more Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. How many people STILL want to keep voting for REPUBLICANS???? Oh .................. they'll say they'll let you keep your guns ..................... but you'll just pay for them over & over & over & over & over again by the money you'll have to lay out for all the benefits they want to "free" the employers from. But I suspect .................. once people see how badly they've F-ed over by those same REPUBLICANS ........................ they might just start shooting and killing some of those corporate puppet REPUBLICANS. THHHEEEEEENNNNNNN watch how quickly they move to confiscate ALL weapons to further consolidate power.

    The REPUBLICANS talk freedom ........................ but do everything in their power ........... and now with Rump ................. even if they don't have REAL LEGAL power - they still take away basic freedoms of the American people. And many of the people are too BLIND and STUPID to even see & recognize it.
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  13. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment

  14. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    I think conservatives only see the big goverment in 1984. Life is bad because the goverment has power over people's lives. Policy does not matter it's the simple fact there is a policy. I heard so much comparison to Obamacare and 1984 but none with Trump from this group.

    Emmanuel Goldstein could easily be ANTIFA or Saul Alinsky. The party loves to find enemies of freedom. I don't see the same thing with Democrats. If they have an enemy there is strong evidence why they feel that way. Not a vague emotional feeling and propaganda. Ask Fox news they will say ANTIFA is out there forcing rural mothers to get abortions and spitting on the flag.

    Only difference is Fox spends a lot more time than 2 minutes hating them every day.

    8 "1984" Quotes That Are Relevant in Trump's Presidency

    According to the New York Times, both when Trump took office and when Kellyanne Conway stated her infamously dumbfounding line equating lies to "alternative facts," 1984 copies began to sell furiously and rose to Amazon's Bestseller's List.

    The entire Trump administration is so similar to Orwell's chilling and unfortunately applicable masterpiece to our current political situation. So here is a list of Orwell's predictions from 1984 that have rung true.

    1. "Orthodoxy means not thinking – not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness" (53)
    To be a perfect, ideal member of 1984 society, one blindly follows and accepts what the government says without protest. The only way they get news is from their cherished leader or a similar news source that their leader also watches. They loyally follow and endlessly love their Big Brother.


    2. "...a mug of milkless Victory coffee" (50)
    In the world of 1984, most of their goods are named "Victory _____." But just calling something "Victory" does not actually make a Victory. For instance, by saying "we will have so much winning if I get elected that you many be bored with winning" does not actually make a "win."

    3. "The Lottery, with its weekly pay-out of enormous prizes, was the one public event to which the proles [ordinary folk] paid serious attention... [But] the prizes were largely imaginary" (85)
    Apart from the Lottery, the government also produces other entertainment like bad movies and songs. It's meant to distract the citizens from acknowledging their deteriorating quality of life. Much like Trump using Twitter to start feuds for no reason to distract us from the real problem- that Russia meddled in our elections.

    4. "Everything faded away into shadow- would in which finally, even the date of the year had become uncertain" (44)
    In the book, they are constantly re-editing history and the past to make sure the lies the government is telling in the present aligns and makes the party look infallible. Sounds like the constant denying Spicer does daily to justify his unjustifiable Big Brother.

    5. "We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it" (263)
    But Trump should. It's embarrassing how long he has held onto a job he never wanted in the first place.

    So many people have stated that he would not be running for President if he did not really want to help the country, but that statement is almost as stupid as the President himself. He did it for an ego boost; everyone knows the Presidency is the highest office one can achieve.

    6. "One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship" (263)
    "Give Trump a chance" they said. "He might surprise us," they said.


    7. "2 + 2 = 5"
    Orwell uses math as a motif because math is stable and constant. There can only be one answer in math, but in our dystopian world, it seems like that is not the case. Paradoxically, facts are disputable.

    8. "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them"
    For instance, how Republicans say they are Christian, but only use the Bible's teachings when it boosts their argument rather than following its teachings 100% of the time, as it says to do.

    "Love thy neighbor." If you are a real Christian, you will understand this to be without conditions. Its NOT "love thy neighbor, EXCEPT when they are Muslim, gay, female, or anything that does not look like you."

    You cannot be both a Trump supporter and a Christian, without using doublethink.

    Orwell's book spirals much further down into totalitarianism's necessities like torture, mass espionage, "re-education," and endless war. We need to resist now to prevent this mess from turning into 1984.

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  15. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    The 1984 part is frightening!
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  16. erofant

    erofant Members

    Some people will quickly claim the 1984 is just fiction - but even fiction is based on human behaviors and ideologies. Fiction has been used many times as a written tool to point out wrongs and evils in society, or to act as a warning. This is the case with Orwell's 1984. Sadly ..................... those with poor reading and comprehension skills won't see the correlation between 1984 and Rump's actions & administration.
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  17. phil1965

    phil1965 Members

    Anyone who has read '1984' should be seriously worried now, what is happening is all about controlling the masses, they go on in the UK about a spike in Covid cases, but by the PM's own admission today, the level of testing has increased. It should be obvious even to a small child that if you test more people you will find more cases, it's so simple, a bit like the cretins we have running the UK.
    I refuse to believe most of it, the facts don't add up, if there are more deaths then why are there not more funerals, or are they getting rid of the bodies in some other way? Wake up people for gods sake, this isn't real! If it was then how come we can have 'bubbles' and 'air bridges'? A virus will spread because it can, stopping people going from say the UK to China on a direct flight can and will transmit the virus, but saying that you can't fly direct from the UK to China, you must fly via say Germany, will not prevent the spread, the virus doesn't recognise borders, if it did we'd just tell it it couldn't leave the country, lol.
    The whole thing is about worldwide control of the general masses, I'm not going to get involved with who is behind it, the Masons, the Illuninatae, or whoever, I really don't give a toss, what I am bothered about is the fact it's happening!
    Mustard Tiger likes this.
  18. erofant

    erofant Members

    ^^^^^^ The Covid-19 pandemic is a separate issue itself. Controlling the masses by controlling the free flow of information & thus thought - is it's own topic.

    Also - as for any infectious disease - the idea of increased testing is PRECISELY to uncover any previously unknown cases to be able to isolate them from other people. That's the whole idea!!! It's supposed to be a preventative method to stop the spread. Eliminating testing - as Trump has suggested - will reduce the number of confirmed cases to zero .................. but that doesn't mean there are no more infected people!!!!! Try to grasp the concept of infection testing.
  19. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    The point was that the masses were controlled through lies and falsehoods because authorities controlled the information. They literally rewrote history and facts so they would fit in with their current ideological policy and it worked because they had complete control of the dissemination of information.

    There are places like China and Russia where this happens today but so far that's not the case in the UK or US* in those places however wealth has a great deal of power in disseminating propaganda.

    So what we have these days is wealth sponsored and other right wing propagandists disseminating misinformation, lies and fake news that is meant to bamboozle the gullible and ill informed

    So that people like yourself actually come to believe that things like Covid are part of some kind of globalist conspiracy (by the Masons, the Illuninatae, or whoever)

    What do you believe is the purpose of this conspiracy what are its aims?

    [*Although both the Trump and Johnson regimes in US and UK are doing all they can to stop reliable data been known publically]
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
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