Estimating Increase In Effects - Same Total Dose But All At Once Vs. Redose

If someone took two tabs then two more 2hr later then another time they took all 4 at once, how much would their subjective experience increase the 2nd time?

Of course its all a guess but do you think maybe a 50% increase could be expected or is it more likely to produce an almost double intensity trip (by taking all at once vs. re dosing 2 hours in)

I know this is all speculation but I'm interested in what people would hypothesize

 

Assuming that both these trips are far enough apart to where tolerance between the 2 trips is not an issue, I think your hypothesis is fairly accurate, I don't recall ever staggering my doses with LSD in that way but having done so with other psychedelics, it seems that is about a good estimation.

 

Thanks for the input but just to be clear which hypothesis are you referring to, the 50% increase or the nearly double the effects? Thanks again

 

50% increase, although if it's a different batch of LSD then that throws in a whole different variable into the mix as it could have a substantially different potency than your previous batch.

 

That's difficult for me to answer. I think you mean to ask which trip would be more potent. I think the one where you take them all four at the same time. But I think that staggering them would certainly increase the duration of intoxication. The reason this is confusing is because LSD experiences are generally referred to as having a peak, thus it the logical person would propose that you would have two peaks by staggering doses. I don't think you would really notice two specific peaks. You would probably just think that you were peaking for longer.

 

Yes I was asking about potency. No doubt 4 tabs at one would produce a more potent trip/peak then cutting it in half and staggering the doses by 2 hours.

What I was asking is how much more potent.

As guerillabedlam pointed out there are many variables so it is all speculation but my hypothesis was also 50% increase (in potency of single peak vs potency of peak/s in the "2+2 trip")

 

Okay I understand now. I don't think I could say in finite terms how much more potent.

 

Fair enough. It was a question one could only hypothesize about. I will report back with my findings

Peace and Love and Lots of good vibes

 

One thing I should note which seems to be wholly unique with LSD or at least lysergamides and I think is mentioned in that Leary book I recommended to you in the other thread Cannabliss88, as well as has been noted by other Psychedelic psychonauts is that compared to say Phenethylamine Psychedelics such as 2cb, 2ce, Mescaline, MDMA, etc. which seem to have relatively reliable dosage based effects, LSD tends to be a bit more variable based on it's dosages. Once you cross certain thresholds in dose ranges with LSD, there seems to be less of an ability to estimate what type of experience you may have (although perhaps initiates in extremely high dose ranges such as thumbprints might scoff at this) but here is an excerpt from psychedelic explorer D.M.Turner speaking in regards to what I'm getting at.

I'm not sure how or if this translates to dosing all at once as compared to staggered doses but perhaps it may.

 

Speaking from experience of having gone days dosing a drop here, a drop there, tolerance develops almost immediately so any subsequent dose after that first one will yield less subjective results.

Taking it all in one dose is the best to ensure a "full" psychedelic experience.
but LSD can be very versatile in it's use and I have had very enjoyable experiences on 50ugs as well as 500ugs.

and yes, LSD does behave differently in the nervous system once a certain threshold is reached.
Probably the most commonly noticeable difference when that threshold has been breached is the lethargy and uncoordinated muscular control and activity on higher doses, whereas on lower-mid range doses muscular activity and control can be honed to precision.

and I completely agree about the subjective experience being considerably "greater" when tripping in unfamiliar surroundings.

 

Cannabliss, I worry about this. You should maybe just take one dose at a time! Lol. Silly since I know you don't want to hear it. But all the same you should have a valid experience from taking just one dose. Valid in the sense that when you analyze your experience, you can say that you experienced something. It's not necessary to have a mind-blowing trip, but nice to have any trip at all.

I can speak from experience since I tend to trip when I eat 15mg THC/CBD. I have noticed that things can get pretty far out without, as Noxious says, uncoordinated muscular control or notable lethargy. My point is that it doesn't take much.

With a higher dose, say 30mg I experience more anxiety symptoms. Of course some feelings of anxiousness are normal (and vary dramatically from person to person) but on a higher dosage I notice that fewer things are under my control.

Just food for thought though.

 

definitely hits harder all at once, but if you redose you will notice that the 2nd dose becomes noticeable much quicker than the first did.

 

There are various viewpoints but I don't really find psychedelics benefit from dosing them like you might dose like cocaine, prescription meds or even smoking pot. The point where psychedelics really shine is in relinquishing control and having mind-blowing experiences, that is the essence of the psychedelic experience.

I think trying to turn well researched psychedelics into like trippy nootropics is kind of disrespectful to them from novice users, often leads to a particular dissonance too, where if they happen to hear all these fantastic, bizzarre, extravagat experiences about what it's like only to experience a subtle off-baseline change from reality. However, that said I do think advanced psychedelic users can do a lot more with lower doses, once that frame of reference is instilled in the user, there is a malleable quality that can be called upon with lower doses.

 

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences, opinions, advice

I did take 4 at one time and in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE it took me about 50% higher than when I took split the same dosage and staggered it by 2 hours. I am not saying this is definitive proof of how it will effect anyone else just sharing my findings.

One thing I realized is that I don't get a whole lot more out of it taking 4 vs taking between 1 and 2. I realized that the setting I'm in as well as my state of mind are much more important factors than the dosage itself. I tend to get too caught up in thoughts in philosophy and then that's 4 tabs I devoted to that one trip that only did so much.

Taking it as a single dose did seem to allow me to experience less burnout and more of an afterglow. It actually got better long after I started coming down simply because I stopped thinking and writing and just let go and meditated, melting into the Oneness of the Universe.

I did, however have a much more pleasant experience taking it all at once. When I staggered the doses it seemed to create more fogginess, fear of loosing control (as I described in another thread) and provided less clarity and lucidity than experiencing just one peak.

I also realized that if I ever want to take any kind of "heroic ego-death dose" of a psychedelic its not going to be tabs of anything but instead plants which have been used in such ways for hundreds of thousands of years. I'm coming to believe that the best synthetics (including LSD) can do is mimic what the shamans have been practicing for countless generations...surely a much safer route or, at least, imho, more natural and organic feeling using natural plants.

Given the limited supply of acid it serves me better to take multiple smaller doses every once in a while. More opportunities to take part in the true psychedelic experience more times.

We really do have to be careful these days when it comes to dropping acid because its hard to know what your actually getting and whats the point of flirting with ego death when some of the compounds these acid tabs are adulterated or substituted with can and have lead to actual death.

Surely LSD itself is a pretty safe psychedelic but I don't think even the purist of it can do more than mimic the richer more organic feel of a natural plant with hundreds of thousands of years of use but this is just my conclusion based on my relatively limited experiences with psychedelics.

Overall I think psychedelics are good medicine and I did have a very cleansing, insightful, humbling and healing experience. If they were legal I think they would provide lots of people with a medicine that does so much more than any of the pharmaceuticals which are really just band aids. Psychedelics are real medicine because they take you right down to the root of your problems and force you to confront them whether you like the truths they're showing you or not.

Peace and love to you all and remember to be careful about assuming acid tabs are actual LSD because many, if not most, contain other things which can be dangerous, even deadly, which is just one more reason psychedelic drugs need to be legalized. It should be a basic right for humans to be able have the psychedelic experience and know exactly what, and how much they are getting.

 

I'm glad you had a healing experience Cannabliss!

 

i think that 4 hits vs 2 + 2 an hour later, would be more than 50% stronger. maybe more like twice as strong (100% more).

i think that dose response for LSD is exponential. meaning that 200 ug is more than twice as strong as 100 ug. the dosage curve is an exponential curve, not a straight line.


curious what plants you are using to take higher dosage trips, cannabliss?

 

I'm not using any plants at the moment but I have used morning glory seeds, mushrooms and salvia divinorum. Mushrooms are the best imho. Morning glory never did much for me except when I smoke with it and salvia only helps me when using the natural strength unfortified leaf and chewing the leaves.

One of these days I'm going to find mushrooms again or try a cactus. Tabs are good but I trust plants more because they have a long history of human use. Tabs are good for a good head change and smoking while on low dose of tabs has taken me to transcendent states of mind but I'm going to save the rest of my tabs for a while.

It was a good summer of tripping about once every other week but life has changed since then and I'm going to have to save the rest of my tabs for when I'm back in a more positive state of mind. Probably will be at least another month.

I am intersted in one day finding a real shaman to guide me through a large psychedelic experience but I am not interested in these retreats where you are charged so much for a session.

If anybody knows where to find such a shaman let me know. You can send me a PM if you prefer to keep it on the DL. It is something I felt called to do on acid - to find a real shaman who works with plants and I know when the time is right I will find such a shaman.

 

^ I can be your shaman if you share those tabs with me

 

I am pretty sure it wass Timothy Leary who suggested that redosing be done every 4 hours. This is because of how long an lsd peak lasts. You hit your peak 4(+1 or so for absorption) hours after you dose and your peak will last about 4 hours.

If you take the same dose 4 hours in you will feel no increase in high but if you take the same dose 2 hours in you would feel more high.

I usually redose when I trip. Tonight for example I took 2 hits at 4pm and another 3 at 8pm. All going well I will be taking another 4 at midnight. This makes for a much longer trip with a more gradual onset. Just the way I like it!

 

there really is no comparison between thc/cbd and LSD, so not sure just what experience you are referring to.