Esoteric, (Hidden,) Knowledge

In music theory there is a rigorous and scientifically verifiable method of describing and classifying sounds into notes according to a harmonic series that fully accounts for that aspect of natural law which is sound.Some human cultures also use micro-tones which are still nevertheless available to music theory.Atonal music is also thus accountable for.In some avant-garde genres conventional notation is partly or wholly dispensed with in favour of more suitable modes of description.Sound cannot lie,because it in itself has no conscious existence.In itself it has no morality or directed purpose.However in modern society and musical culture,at least where there is no suppression of freedom of what you can say,I content that some music expresses untruth.It could be said,firstly,that sound free of lyrical content cannot be an untruth,as it expresses no lexicon or meta-morphic meme of tangible meaning.That maybe true,for even though there may be some genres of music we don't like,it is hard to say that it is actively resonating an untruth.The question here for me is the relationship between truth and morality and aesthetic sensibility,coupled with a consideration of lyrical content and the attitude,demeanour and communicative agenda of the musician/artist.I am talking here specifically,to get become clearer,about successful artists with a large public platform in the genres of what is known as pop music that gets into the top 40,including what is known as modern R'n'B,and some of the less well informed and ideologically bankrupt forms of rap music,some of which espouse a large portion of misogyny,homophobia,violence and negativity which in my opinion works counter to the interests of the intended audience,only going to reinforce negative stereotypes and foster negative thought processes and behaviours in the consumers of this music that only goes to ensure that they remain unable to break out of the socio-economic and cultural life-world that is described in gangster rap etc,where the only financially successful future possible to be found is through crime,becoming a rap superstar or maybe sport.I realize that many young blacks and other minorities who listen to this music identify with it as it describes the world they live in,and that they draw strength from a shared cultural identity.But I believe that this music and glamorization of crime and violence works against there better natures and realizable potential.I know that the popularity of gangster rap has waned in recent years,and that there is a lot of very musically sophisticated socially conscious material being made.But these artists don't seem to get the exposure and financial backing of the successful mainstream artists that get propelled into the spotlight today.The music business is to an unacceptable degree a manipulated fix.I admit that it has always been so to some degree,but when I see what passes as mainstream chart music today I can only think that most of these artists are selected,groomed and moulded into products which are artificially injected into a highly controlled system of capital expenditure and media exposure that is designed to guarantee success for the chosen few because they look a certain way and will rarely critique the status quo and say or do something original and new.This constitutes to me a lie,and I am referring here to the kind of pop pap that seems to be selling these days,which time after time as if caught in an eternal repeating 3 minutes of audio drivel saying little more than a trite and arrogantly obnoxious fixation with what mostly looks like interminably boring glamour obsessed party scenes populated with unreal people who show no real love and real self beyond a superficial interest in acting out the brainwashing agenda of corporate record executives.This to me all constitutes a lie on the grandest scale.Everything here is perfect,airbrushed and computer graphizied.It represents a cosmetic virtual pseudo heaven that most of us can never aspire to,not that we'd want to.The music is also a lie,consisting often times little more than tinny repetitive drum loops,a few synthesized computer samples looped together with no real sense of progression,melody or harmony,over which is intoned autotuned characterless vocals with lyrics that mean nothing,say nothing and change nothing.It is all one big highly orchestrated lie that is imposed on an all too receptive media platform.The interconnected web of established artists and emerging artists who saturate the popular media channels is a scam and a fix manipulated by all involved parties.They decide in advance which artists will make it,and they have almost complete control of mainstream channels.I fail to see how these genres of artless musical equivalents of aural vapidity can progress,save for imploding on their own dead-eyed lack of musical imagination and aesthetic irrelevance.Okay,so I do sometimes appreciate a good pop tune,and realize that oftentimes folks just want to party,have a good time and not think too much,but there is plenty of room for improvement for funky goodtime music.So I realize that I have been rambling and appear to have gone off topic,but I was inspired by the dopes and Nephila's considering of truth and lies.Furthermore,I am a musician,and want to gain some form of success from my recordings,even though this will be a highly anonymous project.How can I gain access to the music industry.My answer is by sheer force of the power of the sounds a I produce and the at times incendiary nature of what I have to say.My themes will include tropes of the super -numinous,meta-magical,and my success will be facilitated by natural,organic esoteric meditational practices of a walking living faith in the fulfilment of my life path.I will endeavour to share knowledge and joy,and try to foster the belief that this life is more than mundane gross material reality,even if my sounds are only heard by a few hundred people,I will attempt to communicate the power of faith in the soul-spirit,redemption and forgiveness in this lifetime,and walk the path of the peaceful warrior who realizes that everyday may be his last,and that there is no time to waste in achieving liberation and salvation,God or no God.

 

Not to confuse the issue but if I go out and piss on an anthill would they know it's not raining.

 

i did deliniate the objective cause that explained my position with precision. Are you confused now? What had been perceived as common before by some may not seem that way now. There wa a time when I was too arrogant for you to tolerate.

I am speaking of the particulars from an expanded sense and my position wasn't that pissing caused rain but I also made the point that
pissing and rain are connected as part of the natural cycles of the earth. In fact I think there is no remote cause and effect but only common cause and effect. What I am saying is that these particular distinctions are not useful in determining what is objective and the assertion was that making the connection that pissing causes rain is an absurdity not something definitely being explored. So no I haven't distorted any meanings.

 

While it would be an interesting experiment to see if their behavior was the same, you can't call upon an ant's subjective impressions to ever know. For all we know an ant may not be able to make a distinction between a rock and a stationary human.

Apparently so, you deflected the response and went off on some loosely related tangent about energetic process.

I pick my responses to you more selectively now, kinda more or less what BBB said about, at times it's like going through artichoke fields.

That's not to say I don't respect you though.

Do we want to expand further?? Does rain on Jupiter necessarily suggest that life that pisses resides there?

From an observational standpoint, the outside variables to control to assert same causes with pissing and raining would vastly outweigh any notable causal relationship they might have.

 

I question whether it is indeed such an absurdity; hence my use of it as an example of why magick doesn't have to work, just because we experience the universe through language. Perhaps a better example is yelling "TIE" at your shoelaces. Even if shoelaces are language, that doesn't mean you can "wield" language in this way to produce any real effect. In this sense, magick is not a done deal just because the universe is language (if it even is).

 

Yes we want to expand further and say that all phenomena are variations of the interactive properties of matter which are absorption reflection and polarity. We can say of the rain on jupiter that it represents a circulatory system as does pissing into a cup. What I say of notable causal relations is that they are notable when making a specific case or aiming for a specific target and their main virtue is simply to be chosen as a subject for conversation. How helpful is it to take an arbitrary starting point and arbitrary ending point to represent the nature of cause and effect?

 

What I think you are calling arbitrary, I'd call defined and it's very helpful or else this conversation would not be had.

 

Fairylights, welcome. I had to paste your posts into a word processor and insert paragraphs, but I read both of them. I really enjoyed your breakdown of mainstream music; too true (hehe).

Regarding your meditation practice. Meditation is something I am very interested in, and passionate about, and also very actively avoiding in my life for various basically silly reasons. I want to first thank you for resparking a desire to enter this practice with both feet. Then I ask you, these sensations, particularly those after pressing on eyeballs; ancient peoples ascribed to them the meanings they knew. In their case, stories of Hindu gods and the pantheon of that era and place. Today, we know so much about neurology. If you had told me 3,000 years ago that this practice produces bright lights and sensations of zapping and vibration, I would immediately conclude you had tapped into some kind of divine energetic ecology, perhaps a transaction with a deity itself (kundalini or some other). Today, you tell me you sit in a dark room, concentrating intensly on repeated words and images for hours on end, then press on your eyelids, and experience these things, I think to myself "vertigo, imagination, and sub-threshhold seizure-like activity mingled with a bleeding of dream states into waking life". Is this a bad way to look at it? Is one way better than the other? I have a very high threshhold for what I consider miraculous or divine in the common sense of the word. I agree with you that the entire universe is a divine explosion of phantasmagoric bewilderment; but coming "down to earth" for a minute, and using the more pedestrian language and worldview, what makes these experiences anything more than "crazy shit I felt while doing strenuous stuff with my mind and body"?

 

Well the example you give is not a hard one to pin down. You can't intone tying shoes if you don't first know how to tie shoes. You must first learn to speak a language before you speak a language. However having learned the language you can speak it in any situation. Having learned to tie shoes you can tie shows in the dark standing on your head. As far as the use of language to create things we must first learn how to use language to communicate. I think intonation is a better practice for manifesting things than speaking spells designed for specific chores. That is maintaining harmonious tone cultivates toneful responses in a variety of forms.

 

Perhaps you can yell "TIE" to a person or entity (thinking robots here) which may possess the capacity to both understand the command and perform it.

I'm not sure how this qualifies as "magick" but it seems more in line with the realm of practicality that ChinaCat mentions. Perhaps you could even make voice activated shoelaces but I don't follow how "magick" or alchemy needs to be called upon.

 

Language can function as a kind of sympathetic magic with the right application can work on the mind and thinker to help attain moral and aesthetic progress.In a sense,if we become artful,aesthetically and morphemically sophisticated in out verbal speech and writing this can have a kind of essensualist positive effect on our aesthetic sensibility and the well-being of our verbal frontal mind-consciousness structure.I am suspicious of oratory spell castings and mantras as having any magic effect in themselves,but certain concatenations of syllables,if intoned correctly,such as Sanskrit,maybe able to effect quantitative change in the individual.

 

In this case it is helpful in deliniating what? Obviously not that a case can't be made for or against. Mainly the case suggests we can't make assumptions about things being connected but that doesn't mean we can't demonstrate a case for them being connected.

 

That describes all of TheDope's posts perfectly xD

 

The meditation I have described is a fully immersive whole body experience.It is not dream-like or fragmented.

 

If this is the case, one of the failures of music theory as a 'science' then is that it also has to incorporate lack of sound.

I don't think that most sciences are restricted by such a paradox of having to integrate it's exact opposite of what it sets out to study, if they are then perhaps ChinaCat is on to something.

 

This concept of yelling "TIE!" at your shoelaces is books and movies... Forget these stupid concepts. Nobody is claiming this is what they are actually doing. If that is what you expect Magick to be... go watch a fuckin' movie.

 

Then what you are all describing is "intentional placebo"?

 

Making a change in the Psyche...


You can call it whatever you like.

 

It doesn't mean much to say intentional placebo unless there is a personal attitude that hangs with that phrase. Placebo is always intended at some point. Placebo is also effective treatment between 20 and 38% of the time on average within a range of certain conditions. In some cases recidivism of conditions is greater with potent drugs than with healing associated with placebo.

Early in this thread I talked about how drugs were in fact magic devices.
I tried to lead away from the concept of magic and towards the recognition of the miraculous in us. We need to look within to discover the source of our own disease. In doing so I find that malignancy is a communication about as opposed to a biological invader. That is cancer is not an error in form as to what it communicates to us about lifestyle planet wide. Miraculous in nature we are both begining and ending and therefor may transcend temporal order or move faster than evolution. We are not resigned to a fate in any sense but we have a certain level of accessibility or we reside within a small spectrum of what is available and physically can't exceed certain bounds as we are but we can develop protheses like space suits etc. Miracles are creative type thoughts which may represent bodily level experience, (space suit,) or spiritual level experience, (light body.) One makes the physical, the other creates the spiritual.

 

Yeah Writer...I've already clarified that Siddhis are different than Magick. Yelling TIE is more of a psychic power than Magick. Magick is about changing your consciousness...focusing your consciousness. If you're into meditation, well ritual isn't that much different. You just don't like the concepts because in my explanation of it I tend to give it a rather flashy and "Big" perfume, but that's just how I tend to express shit I especially am very interested in.

Magick is about willing things into your life that is most authentic for you. Synchronicities tend to open to up because of the matching vibrations. I've tried to say multiple times that Magick isn't about doing shit that's not physically capable. It's about maximizing your potential with what you are doing. This is why Magick is not just rituals but rituals mixed with daily living.