Environmentalists are annoying

Bla bla bla some ppl may call humankind the cancer of this planet. And I say so what, how can u blame cancer for being cancer?


Its crucial nay natural for all living creatures to feed on something to keep on living.


We have achieved so much in the last 200 years, look around there seems to be infinite space around us which is filed with nothingness or just dead rock and ice. Never the less in here we have art, music, technology, philosophy... but such a transformation from static matter to modern life cannot happen without fuel/energy yes we may extract this energy in a harmful way but give us a chance we just started. And don't forget that we are looking for cleaner and better ways to exist but this equilibrium of nature and modern civilization will not happen over night after all evolution takes time.


And u may say we kill other species with our way of life. And again I say so what some poor cute animal will seese to exist but there were mass extinctions in the past without humans involvement. Even if we provoke another mass extinction this time was special. Because of all the human experiences that took place here maybe for the very first time in this universe there is a life force that can experience love, that can gaze in to the stars and understand them for what they are to contemplate the very meaning of existence and the universe it self is int this worth a few bugs life's or one planets health?

 

I agree, well put.

 

But we, unlike cancer can "experience love, gaze in to the stars and understand them for what they are, to contemplate the very meaning of existence and the universe it self"

Feed off of other things yes, destroy them wantonly, no. Nature balances itself out. Yes, there are cases of overfeeding in the wild, which leads to a shortage of food for the predator, which leads to smaller numbers of predators, which allow for the prey to flourish again, allowing the predators to increase... and so on... constantly in flux, but almost never to the point of one or the other being wiped out. That is the difference between what happens in the wild naturally, as opposed to us, who have went in and literally destroyed whole ecosystems and species, and are continuing to do so.

Evolution and advancement of knowledge are not linked in the way you seem to be implying here. Evolution is a matter of time and response to the surrounding stimuli, advancement of knowledge is a matter of effort.

Yes, we have achieved amazing things, and are continuing to do so on an increasing basis everyday. What is the point though, if it leads to it all being wiped out?

As for why it matters if our actions destroy us in the process... precisely because we can "experience love, gaze in to the stars and understand them for what they are, to contemplate the very meaning of existence and the universe it self"

 

Sorry, was plastered when I wrote the last post. I believe that we have the capabilities to tackle more than one problem at the same time. However, with that being said I do not think our system of handling "problems" is not streamlined enough to tackle more than one big problem at a time.

1. Human rights
2. World hunger (education + shelter as well)
3. World peace
4. Putting ever developed country through the green-o-matic

This is a list of my priorities.

4.5 billion years compared to ~200k years.Who is threatening who here? We are just a speck of shit when it comes to this Earth. The Earth is not worried about us and it is not worried about what we are doing to it. After all, animal species come and go. Nature is a lot more uncaring than we are.

And unlike cancer we can build telescopes to find new planets and spaceships to go mine them dry. Accept your role in the universe! We are here to eat the sandwich. If we cannot adapt to our growing consumption of energy we will die off. We will be another failed experiment of a species in the universe. If we can adapt to our growing consumption needs and we slowly dominate the universe then we will be a successful strain of bacteria that has spread throughout its host.

 

I don't know why you added more then #1

After all, we arent capable of working on more then one. So according to your theory, everyone should drop everything they are working on now, and concentrate only on Human Rights.

Now, just what is it that you are doing to work on that issue and what is it that you think I and every other person should be doing to help with it?


While you are working out an answer to that, you should be planning on answering just how is it that you expect to have some form of 'Human Rights', without even working to solve world hunger and peace.

 

#1 -> #2 -> #3 -> #4. Natural progression of numbers! Just wanted to give you an idea of how we as a species should chart a path.

Honestly, yes, we should. I would rather die from global warming completely free then live a long life on a clean, green, totalitarian Earth.

I'm doing the equivalent of buying a re-usable totebag.

Think of government like HIV/AIDS. You can keep them in-check but the moment you stop trying they kill you.

 

Nothing on that list (according to you) means anything until Humans Rights issues are dealt with, therefore, why would you go beyond it?

The rest of your response is just pure nonsense...

First off, Human Rights and Total Freedom, are not the same or even mutually possible.

Secondly, You don't have either option available right now, you are neither free, nor do you live on a clean, green earth (and never will until it is free according to your path).

Which, according to you

What in the holy fuck does that have to do with anything at all?? As a response to what I said, it means nothing.

 

Chronic, you're missing the point. We live on a biologically-diverse planet. This planet has been around for many billions of years. Recently (earth timeline) a species developed something called an ego. Fast-forward a couple hundred thousand years and this species is the alpha species on the planet. To fuel their growth, this species sucks the blood of the planet. All is good until some members of the species begin to feel bad about sucking the blood of the planet.

Feeling bad for fucking the planet is not a bad thing, in fact it is good. HOWEVER, there is one thing about these said individuals that irk me. First, we have much bigger problems than worrying about if pandas are going to go extinct.

Most of the governments of the world are slowly but surely enslaving their constitutents through wage-slavery or just plain tyrannical policies.

Millions upon millions of people are in a constant state of hunger and poverty. With thousands dying each day from starvation.

Many people die each year on wars that do not make any sense.

And, last but not least we will eventually run out of oil and will probably fry ourselves with raising temps.

All of the above problems are big and need to be dealt with quickly. However, due to how most of the governments operate (ineffectively) it seems that we can only tackle one big problem at a time. We have the capabilities to deal with more than one, but unfortunately we just cannot seem to do it.

Now, we do need to fix our pollution and energy consumption problems but I believe that we need to fix our other problems first. We need to ensure that people who speak out against their government are not jailed. We need to ensure that all members of our species have clean food and water, an education, and a safe place to sleep. We need to ensure that the governments of the world work together to ensure the advancement of the human species instead of fighting each other.

So instead of buying a Prius, a re-usable tote-bag, and recycled bean-curd pants, how about we get our politicians to stop trampling over the rights our constitution guarentees us?

Instead of acting all holier-than-thou because you're buying into the bullshit marketing scheme that "being green" is, how about you band together to make your collective voice heard by politicians?



Before we learn to take care of the planet, we need to learn to take care of ourselves. The planet has been around for BILLIONS of years. It is a self-correcting system. Millions of species have gone extinct without help from humans. It is called natural selection, they could not adapt. The planet is FINE. WE are fucked.







P.S: equivalent of buying a tote-bag = nothing. That was not a mistake, I do jack shit.

EDIT: Going back to what you said, wouldn't human rights include peace, education, and food?

 

I am not missing the point you are trying to make, I just completely disagree with it.

Whining about things being bad, does nothing... Even if you whine to politicians, unless you have enough people whining at the right time (ie, election time).

Instead of trying to argue a single platform of fixing something that as an single individual, you have virtually no control over (ie, how foreign governments treat their subjects) and then sitting back and saying, Oh I can't do anything about it anyways...

How about you look around at ALL the problems we face, find something you CAN do, and do it.

Such as buying and using re-useable bags instead of wasting the oil we do have by getting disposable bags.

Or by going out and finding a homeless person that wants help and helping them.

Or by using public transportation, or by getting a zero emission vehicle, or by volunteering to an organization that helps 3rd world countries etc etc etc...

For you to argue that all these little things don't matter, just shows that the main problem we face, is stubbornness in learning that we each, as individuals, can take small actions to make the whole better.

 

Oh I forgot this part...


Yes, human rights would include that, but according to your theory, we can only work on one thing at a time. How does including multiple things under one heading change that?

If it does somehow magically change things to include them under one heading, why not just say we need to fix 'everything' and work on that 'single issue'?

 

Contraceptives might help....;-)

 

Haha yeah bump truck loads on if it in the main water supply's.


And Tom man I said already that there is almost no way for the whole human race to be wipe out it just would not happen.


We so fall under ur description we abuse the earth and this leads to our population numbers to decrease as this happens earth health increases. And it would be a fast recovery I mean there are plans to terraform Mars so we most definitively could help our mother earth as this happens our population numbers would grow again. Natural cycle no?


And when I am referring to evolution what I mean is adaptation to the surroundings and don't forget we are talking about humans here if EG it gets colder we don't grow more hairs on our body's through generations we just invent warmer cloths.

 

Just what do you think is going to happen when a re-balance happens? There will be survivors of almost anything yes. But it won't be a matter of "oh look, there's less people to share with". Everything that we have developed over the last couple of hundred, if not thousands of years will be lost.

That includes any 'lessons' that have been learned from it.

Wouldn't it be better, if we found a way to stop destroying the planet and ourselves, before it comes to that? You know, take advantage of those lessons while we still can sort of idea?

You talk about 'human rights', and yet argue that you don't have to do anything that may help prevent billions of people from dying. Don't those billions have those same 'human rights'?

Seriously, what all this comes off as is, "why do anything, I'll just blame everyone else for the problem or ignore it and make fun of anyone for trying."

 

Dude the first ppl to survive will be involved in government after all they will do anything to keep in power all around the world there are fall out shelters specially designed to say replace white house to keep the center of controls intact. This is where the scientist will keep track of the events and try to resolve them urged by the president lol.


And plz don't think I care about the faith of our race what happens will happen and it wont be so bad even if the worst comes to be. I belief if we don't make it which is like 1% chance that means we were to stupid to survive good we all collectively get Darwin awarded.


I just like to speculate what could happen its fun.

 

Is that really as far as your speculation goes?

Those groups you mentioned will survive many number of 'doomsday' scenarios, yes... and then they will quickly die off.

Those people's whole existence is based on others doing the basic work to keep them alive. Once the masses are gone, those groups will quickly follow.

Not just through collapsing infrastructure that they need to survive, but also from those who are not part of their 'group' trying their best to survive. Any survivors of any such scenario aren't going to care in any way shape or form about 'human rights' they will care about getting just one more scrap of food. Even if that means destroying places that were meant to survive such things.

The biggest threat survivors will face, is other survivors... lol

Think of it this way... any major population center has to have a daily mass of trucks, trains and airplanes, bringing in the daily necessities of life. With a few weeks (at the most) of any collapse, the people will be starving, and killing each other. Shortly, the survivors of that, having stripped the urban center clean of anything that can help them, they will move out like swarms of locusts, devouring everything in their path. The only bright side to it all, is that their path, will be along roads and railways, so staying off the main path will help. But this I guarantee, if you (as a survivor) had a place where you grew food, they will find you eventually, much smaller in numbers, but that much greater in desperation.

Thats why even living in the middle of nowhere, I still push environment, social and legal issues that adversely affect our future.

Like it or not, we are all in this together....

 

The biggest threat survivors will face, is other survivors. I completely agree.


But don't u think that government haves already worked this 1 out there will be preparations in place especially if we are talking about clime change(it takes time to bloom in to full effect).


There will be bases set up surrounded by armed military in side it will be self sustaining system for growing food,for getting electricity(solar) and so on... why would there be ppl helping to protect and sustain the government and science officials? Simply because they would get the benefit of being in thous bases.


Ok this is my personal truth and of coarse I could be wrong.


First of all CO2 is the cuze of global warming this is BS. >http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=369735&f=45


Second no 1 will fight over oil in the near future >http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/shai_agassi_on_electric_cars.html


And there are good way to artificially cool the earth from natural climate change.


The only problem is overpopulation and hey am doing my part I don't have kids the ball is in the government court now.

 

You not having kids is not doing anything to solve the over population problem.

Suicide, would...

Of course, waiting for the government to do its part will work too, because if your theories are right, they are on their way to kill you...

 

haha nice 1

 

humans affect the climate of this planet in the range of ca 5%. we have no legitimate reasons to claim that the global warming exists because our temperature records are only ca 20 years old. this planet goes through different climate cycles, sometimes warming up then cooling down. these cycles last tens of thousands of years. in order for us to claim that there is a global warming in an unusual and harmful scale, we would need to have temperature records going back at least ca 50,000 years, even then it would probably be a stretch. right now we are too ignorant to make any claims like that. people who have got nothing better to do are stirring up unnecessary panic and illiterate idiots go along with them. start thinking for yourselves for a change.

 

Man there is so much information and theory's regarding climate change that its hard to be sure on anything but the fact that it is constantly changing the average temperature of earth never stay still.


So if any of u see a clear picture plz enlighten us?


Though 1 thing is for sure CO2 level in the atmosphere follows the temperature not the other way around lagging hundreds of years behind.


As for the temperature records we have three rings for the last few thousands years and ice cores that give good evidence of the temperature dating back 800.000 years. Then we have other ways like brachiopods shells (fossils) to go back millions of years back and then sedimentary rock which takes us back billions of years back of course the further back we look this evidence becomes increasingly more likely to be interpretation of the real temperature. So we do have a grasp of the past climate conditions on earth.


But what exactly controls the cycles well lets start with our solar systems position within the galaxy. Now am not sure about the time frame cuz the documentary I watch had milky way galaxy with 4 arms but recently I read it has only 2 never the less the other cycle is do to us going up and down with in the galaxy. Then we have the magnetic activity cycles of our sun short and long term. All of these factors account to how much cosmic rays earth receives which controls how much cloud cover earth haves.

Then we have the tectonic plates movements and mouton formation which can disturb ocean and air currents which distribute the heat. Volcano eruptions which blocks the sun.


Then we have the orbit of earths around the sun and earths axis cycles.


And I even read something about the amount of dust and debri in space blocking the sun.


Oh and the actual suns energy output.


And of course the man made stuff.


What needs to be done is a lot more research on how much all of the cycles or factors contribute individually. And then u could cross reference all the cycles and factors to get some realistic predictions of the future climate.


But at least for now I think it will get warmer sines the little ice age extremes were 300 years ago and at present the temperature is raising but had not yeat reached the extremes warms of the medieval warming which was 1100 years ago.



>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleothermometry