drugs - idiocy or insight?

"Retard his brain"? Your credibility on the subject takes a hit when you use a phrase like that to describe the effects of LSD.

Also you are still admitting that LSD contributed to an advanced understanding of the DNA molecule by the scientific community. You are obsessing over the details but the point is, LSD had a hand in a major scientific discovery.

 

'Retard' means to cause things to move much slower (i.e. his brain), you retard!:tongue:

Also:

 

I try to see drugs as something superficial and totally materialistic; they have no importance to me other than to get in any other state but sober.

For those who think they get 'enlightenment', or more open-minded with drugs is a twat. Certainly they've made me more open-minded, but it's not BECAUSE of drugs; it's because of myself.

I, as a person, am perfectly able to enlighten myself without the use of alien substances. If you aren't able to know yourself without drugs, then you're a pathetic fool.

 

lithium,

Explain to me how a lifetime of being fed propaganda and dogma produces more truth than a substance that can remove said brainwashing elements from your subconscious?

Many "straight edgers" I've come across are more delusional and misguided than almost all pot smokers I've encountered. The difference between me as a straightedge teenager and me now is drastic. I look back at my thought process and at the things I believed with embarrassment. And I was more progressive than most of my peers.

I believe that the beliefs of the average American are far removed from the reality of life on this planet. They wouldn't know how to find truth if you put it in front of them. Really it is in front of them, but they've don't want to experience it so they shut down their senses. Ignorance feels far too good. The unknown is scary and distasteful.

To sum up my main point, I believe that the brand of ignorance and brainwashing the average American suffers from more fully obscures their perspectives from the truths of the universe than the effects of just about any drug I know of.

In an ideal world we would be able to see the world for what it is, but in this society psychoactive drugs are a quick and efficient way to strip away the clouds of bullshit and enable us to catch a few rays of enlightenment from the natural and untainted environment around us.

Meditation is probably better in the long run but I don't think it would work for the masses.

 

Who the bloody 'ell are you to say that everyone else is ignorant? Oh yeah, you're the almighty God of Knowitallism: Arse-talker the Great. Straight-edgers are wrong because they don't do drugs, and they don't know truth? You may aswell shove a toothbrush 'tache on and call yourself Hitler.

Get off your high horse and see the truth that people have their own minds and have a right to think what they like, whether you think it's 'right' or not.

 

Indeed. I don't think it's seriously in doubt that drug taking can have valuable effects in some circumstances - certainly I don't think anyone in this thread has expressed the notion. And that's quite apart from fun, which is valuable in itself. But I suppose it's in the nature of these kinds of discussions that people will seek to reduce the point to a simplistic black or white, good/bad question rather than focus on the complicated and interesting subtleties.

 

I agree that all factors and details should be considered, as long as it is an objective look at these details. When discussing the details of a thing, you can learn a lot about an individual by what details they personally emphasize and which ones they minimize or leave out in this kind of discussion.

I definitely agree with you that true life is extremely complex, but some people use complexity to their advantage in an argument by appearing to state all the facts, to create an appearance of objectivity, while really manipulating the truth by leaving certain bits of information out, and emphasizing others.

So even in stating all the details and exploring the subtleties of a subject, there is still a danger of a "black and white" viewpoint, albeit it a more masked one.

 

That's very true, especially where eloquence and command of language permits people to make it look like they know what they're talking about, where really they're bullshitting. It's a classic technique, emphasising style over substance, and one everyone should be trained to watch for. Having said that, I don't think Lithium is bullshitting, he didn't earn that PISS award for nothing y'know. PISS not shit, that's him....

 

Hahahaha! That made me laugh.:tongue:

 

1-5 acid/shroom trips, monthly pot smoking = insight
Anything else = idiocy

 

Hey, people have a right to think what they want. Even the Nazi's had and used that right and I don't think anyone here will agree with their viewpoints. It's a human right to use your imagination to the fullest and create your own belief system, your own values. However I have a right to criticize who and what I want and I will criticize anything that seems to infringe on the social freedom of others. The exceptions are the social freedoms to commit violence, and similar crimes against the personal rights of others. The opression of the soul is a crime I think, and the US government is guilty of it by creating a system of social classes that attempts to eventually eliminate the "undesirable" outsiders of society that threatens the established way of things and threatens to disturb the xomfy seats of those in power.

Yes, I do believe a mental aversion to "street drugs" while embracing cigarettes/alcohol/FDA approved drugs, is a telltale sign of ignorance at work. Alcohol is okay, but pot isn't because the government mandates that it be so? Meanwhile, contemporary scientific studies are telling us the opposite? I guess if you believe in the words of politicians, a class of people with a long and rich history of lying and withholding information, over scientists, who devote their lives to the search of truth, you can justify a conservative stance on the issue.

Sorry if my outspokeness offends you but I believe I can see over the bullshit smokescreen that's thrown down on us, and I understand the big picture. Maybe I'll never convince the rest of society to get their heads out of the dirt and see what an ugly society it is that the conservatives fantasize about (honestly not much different than what Hitler envisioned, a smooth running, efficient system where logic is valued over compassion and the end result is a tight, almost mechanical system that will run forever, changing as little as possible), but I don't have to partake in their thoughts and beliefs.

I like that society has rough edges, misfits, those of dissenting opinion. Conservatives want to kill off the criminals, and then what? Gays? Who else will get in the way of their efficiency?

Sorry, and you can call me a dreamer and a hippie or whatever but I think humanity deserves better than that.

 

Persons who do take drugs are usually of an open mind and are willing to accept thought processes outside the "norm", therefore any otherworldly experience can be accepted and perhaps enlightenment, or just enjoyed.

Those that decry the use of drugs are usually comfortable with what they percieve as "rightness", don't want to upset their reality and will call Idiocy.


lol

 

Eight pages, we managed eight pages before someone mentioned Hitler. I think that has to be a new record guys.....

 

Some commendable statements, but I can't really understand what it has to do with the question at hand! No problem with going off topic if that was just a random rant, I'm sure most if not all of us would agree with your sentiments. But if you think this thread was in any way decrying the use of drugs or bashing those who do then you couldn't really be more mistaken...

I suppose the assumption that people who take drugs are automatically more open minded - or more open minded as a result of their drug use is part of the issue I was exploring. I think we've seen plenty of evidence of people choosing to accept their drug experiences as unquestionable fact, or seeing it as a closer and more real understanding of reality. There's simply no basis for seeing it this way, and it's this kind of "revelation" model of drug use that actually seems rather closed minded to me. It often has the character of religious revelation - something you know because you just know - and accepting any experience on its face value is always a dangerous thing to do.

 

Well spoted.