Dr. Yuval Noah Harari's take on what is consciousness. (I disagree)

Discussion in 'People' started by Mitchell Washington, May 31, 2023.

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Do you agree that suffering is the lack of consciousness?

  1. Yes

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  2. No

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  1. Mitchell Washington

    Mitchell Washington Newbie

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    A Community for celebration. By: Mitchell Washington

    I was watching this video on Youtube titled What is consciousness? by Dr. Yuval Noah Harari. He is known in the court of public opinion as a smart individual. Out the gate he starts talking about how consciousness is one's capacity to suffer. I paused the video and felt impressed to write this: Suffering is the lack of consciousness. To be conscious is to be tapped into a divine belief. Without the belief suffering occurs. And I couldn't even get through the video, I was like, what? How is consciousness, the capacity to suffer? I can kind of see where he was coming from with this idea of suffering as measurable. It is the most relatable; holds the most utility in the social science data collection. The video claimed if a living being can suffer, then they must be conscious. I do not like it because it makes it seem like consciousness requires suffering and it also does not account for unconscious trauma; which I think is a part of suffering. You know, the stuff that's bothering someone that's just below the surface. I am not claiming that suffering does not serve a purpose. Nor am I wise enough to have experienced suffering, as I may have barely scratched the surface. I know it exists. To me, suffering is constant. It plays with time. Like a person could be asked to walk up on stage and sing. They might get through 10 seconds before they can not take it anymore. Those 10 seconds might feel like an eternity because of fear, pain, and or anxiety. If there is a recording, they might have to suffer that feeling over and over again. I see suffering as a distraction for consciousness rather than a catalyst for consciousness. I must acknowledge that it is possible through the distraction of suffering that a sort of meditative state takes shape and a divine belief can surface. I am seeing that suffering is 1. Not a requirement to tap into a divine belief, and 2. Not the best path to get there. I mean suffering is resource heavy, hardest learning curve, morally degrading, etc. I place being conscious as being able to be tapped into the present while still embracing what is to come, and what was. That is what I mean when I write “a divine belief”. I am not referring to a higher voice but something that can be anthropologically assumed to have existed since the dawn of time. I most recently noted this as a philosophical conjecture. In layman's terms a divine belief is something that stands the test of time to have our best interest in mind first. I would hate for this to come off as blasphemy, I am just stating how I feel about an idea I have thought about. And I think that is where Dr. Harari and I disagree. He seems to be describing suffering as a catalyst for great consciousness. Like as if in evolution, pain was a great motivator. And while I could see how that happened, I do not think pain and suffering is the only motivator. And I do not think it is the best. In fact, I think the main thing that motivates anybody is a belief. IN CLASSIC, hippy, dippy California public education fashion I think a thought turns into an idea, and an idea into a belief, and a belief into a will. If society allows it a will, into a tenet. I.E, the will to survive. It is the will to take care of one another. It is the will to love that I call a divine belief. So as long as somebody can tap into that, they are in the “first degree” of consciousness. (Law pun, I do not possess a law degree) Suffering can lead to that conviction, that belief. This connection to a belief allows me to make calculated decisions. Which is a huge part of consciousness. There's an aspect of calculation. For example, if I am running around erratic, you know, I might seem a little dissonant from the outside in. Because I am making poorly calculated decisions. It's like, “hold on, I think I went to good schools, this, that- in- the other. I got a good head on my shoulders. I think I probably would make better decisions if we talked a little bit, help me find language to address the issues of the present"… Community as a practice for celebration not a treatment for a condition. That is the world I see. The world that Dr. Harari painted with this concept of consciousness as the capacity to suffer, is something I am struggling to wrap my mind around. It makes me want to read up on one of his books. Which I plan to do, he still appears to be far more intelligent than me. I am just a self proclaimed thinker but these are my authentic, honest thoughts. When suffering exists in my life, I believe it shows itself because my unconscious, my subconscious, is at capacity. It is full of things I am trying to process. And when, my life that I have been blessed with, drops something on me, I would be like, ‘ooh, I'm going to process this a little later, like when I'm sleeping. I'll wait until I take a rest, or I'll wait until I'm alone. You know, I'm doing something that requires more attention than I could give you right now. I understand that life is giving me a lot of information, but I just can't give that attention to you. I need to process this later.’ I'm going to store it, and oh, I'm going to my storage. My storage is full. It's overflowing. Now I need to figure out what to do. I mean, I need to throw some stuff away from storage. I need to process that right now, and that's just not what I want to do. I'm going to suffer a little bit because I did not deal with my stuff. I have a lot of unconscious material that I am trying to quilt together and it's built up, and this thing that is happening right now, is overflowing. Yes, I'm suffering because I'm forced to process this thing right now, which is taking away my attention to the present moment. See, it is the lack of this present moment that I believe is the phenomena called suffering. Like an internal prison sentence. Yes, the fact that there is a lack of a present moment because I need to process something. And that there is a painful experience, but that painful experience is not the experience that gives way to consciousness. The painful experience is a distraction to the moment, and the moment gives life to consciousness.
    How is consciousness the capacity to suffer? I propose that the presence of suffering in a society, a group of people, or an individual, is an indicator of some force that draws attention away from the present moment, in turn creating a momentary blind spot or a memory backlog. If the memory backlog occurs and the memories are painful then I would call that phenomena, suffering. I believe that in times of extreme pain I am only conscious of the pain and possible ways to get out of being in pain. I personally struggle to see 5 years out or 6 months out or even five minutes. I think pain is extremely blinding. Synonymous with being black out drunk. On occasion a drunk may have the conviction and clarity that resembles a prophet, yet any astute scholar can take what a drunk person says with a grain of salt even if it sounds like the truest truth. I subscribe to this concept because I believe hurt people hurt people. Which is why when I heard that definition of consciousness, I wanted to offer an alternative perspective.. That's my take on a video called What is Consciousness? by DR. Yuval Noah Harari. Thank you for reading. Mitchell Washington.
     
  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I'm not familiar with this guy or the video, but it seems to me he is equating the knowledge of suffering, that is a desire to escape suffering at an individual level, that requires human consciousness.

    In other words one must have a concept of "I", or an ego, to want to escape from certain undesirable circumstances, whether physical or mental.
    One must be conscious of the suffering on a personal level and seek to escape it on a personal level.
    In contrast an animal, which we will assume lacks a conscious aspect at the same level as a human, does not have an ego, a concept of an individual "I", that seeks to escape suffering. An animal would just avoid suffering at an instinctive, or biological level.

    An animal doesn't think, "Whoa is me, I'm suffering."
    So your question doesn't have a yes, no answer in my opinion.

    All that being said, I believe in universal consciousness.
     
  3. Mitchell Washington

    Mitchell Washington Newbie

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    Thanks for that. I believe he was more leaning towards I am suffering therefore I am.

    I subscribe to the thought: I am suffering therefore I was.
    To be, is to not live in a state of suffering but to live without suffering. At least that's the goal. It's a cool video I highly recommend it.
     

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