Dr. Frederick Lenz on Karma Yoga

Discussion in 'Hinduism' started by Ajay0, Jul 5, 2022.

  1. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    Insightful sayings by Dr. Frederick Lenz on Karma Yoga ( the path of action)...


    Quotations on Karma Yoga, Hinudism, Vedanta, Baghavad Gita, Krishna, Arjuna, Vishnu, Lakshmi, Selfless Giving, self-realization, Bhagavad Gita and the Atman

     
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  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    But as we come to find out selfless action is a contradiction if any action is taken with the idea that it will bring you into higher states of mind, as what are you trying to bring to a higher state of mind?
     
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  3. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    The ego-mind ( as opposed to the Self) is motivated by its own self-interest and composed of raag-dvesh or strong desires in the form of cravings-aversions, manifesting as greed,lust, hatred, egoism and inordinate attachments. The focus is more on desires or greed rather than legitimate needs. All vices are just the manifestations of these cravings-aversions.

    The incessant thinking and emoting of the ego-mind (due to its cravings-aversions) results in an agitated mind that veils the Self or Buddha nature within, just as the agitated surface of a lake blurs its clear floor at bottom. This also prevents one from accessing the bliss, peace and joy of the Self, which is considered superior to all known sensory and intellectual pleasures.

    The Self (Atman - Brahman) is considered to be of an auspicious nature, as compared to the ego-mind (Ahankara) which is of an inauspicious nature attracting adversity or negative events. (Perhaps quantum physics might be able to explain the mechanics of this process)

    Thus the whole process of yoga consists in reducing the grip and domination of the ego-mind and unveiling the fundamental Self or Buddha nature within.

    Since performing self-less acts goes contrary to the ego-mind's extreme nature of selfishness , it is pursued as a spiritual exercise in this regard.

    People in many cultures and religions have stated feeling joy and peace out of self-less service even though they were averse to it in the beginning. This is mainly because the domination of the ego-mind had subsided during the exercise of selflessness and the Self or Buddha nature within was unveiled for a period of time.

    There are people who adhere to virtuous conduct rigorously simply because they find it hard to sleep without the peace of a clean conscience at night. Virtuous conduct similarly regulates and curbs the cravings-aversions of the ego-mind, resulting in better access to the Self within, which is the true source of peace. The pricks of conscience is just the intuitive understanding that one has lost access to the peace of the Self within through indulgence in some vice.

    So yes, the practice of selflessness is ultimately a legitimately selfish act in the long run as one is doing so to gain the bliss and auspiciousness of the Self within.

    The enlightened one who has dissolved the mind-ego and unveiled the Self or Buddha nature within totally, thus enjoys bliss and peace of a permanent nature, superior to all known pleasures of an evanescent nature. He or she also emits auspicious energies that benefit the environment and those around her.

    Personally speaking, in the company of an enlightened master I felt subtly the blocks in my body dissolving, increased peace and bliss of a tangible nature without any spiritual effort or exercise on my part. My life also smoothened with reduced issues and problems for a major period of time along with increased opportunities for development, probably due to partaking of the auspicious energies of the enlightened one.

    So technically speaking, selfless action is pursued as an exercise for accessing the Self within and enlightenment, by the one performing it, though this may not be evident or perceived by some at first appearances.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
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  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    And then you have to go wash the dishes.
     
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  5. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    Proper understanding and precise performance of duties is a part of Karma yoga, as the Bhagavad Gita teaches us.

    At a higher level, conscious performance of duties is considered superior to performance of duties motivated by self-interest or compulsiveness or habit.

    It can be a challenge to perform ones duties consciously rather than compulsively. The inner attitude matters a lot ; one can wash the dishes unconsciously/ compulsively disliking the whole process, or one can wash the dishes consciously enjoying the process.

    Janaka was an ancient king mentioned in the Vedas and Gita, and considered the first Karma yogi to have attained enlightenment through mindful performance of his duties as an administrator.

    There is a dialogue between Janaka and the sage Ashtavakra recorded in the classical text named Ashtavakra Gita.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
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  6. Chodpa

    Chodpa Senior Member

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    why do you keep quoting the guy who committed suicide? there um, ajayo
     
  7. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    My understanding is that he left his body through Mahasamadhi. Many yogis do the same in India after finishing their soul mission.

    Shivayogini Matha, was a female enlightened sage, who after Mahasamadi and death, returned back to her body for a few minutes to console her grieving disciples.

    Jiddu Krishnamurti gave up his body as well voluntarily when he discovered at 90 that he had pancreatic cancer and would not be able to continue his lectures and sessions.

    Lenz was suffering from ill-health at that time, and had stated in his last teaching sessions, that they would be his last as well.
     
  8. Chodpa

    Chodpa Senior Member

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    your understanding is wrong. he commited suicide through valium with his girlfriend
    N.Y. Guru Death Ruled a Suicide
    give it a read
    and dont fall for cult bullshit
     
  9. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    Mahasamadhi is a voluntary suicide just like Sallekhana. It is not a suicide out of despair or cowardice. The valium, imho, is just a ruse as it would be hard to believe an athlete and certified scuba diver like Lenz would have drowned.

    He had also stated his suicide was a protest against the way spiritual masters were treated in the west.
     
  10. Chodpa

    Chodpa Senior Member

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    because, you know, 'spiritual masters lives matter.'
     
  11. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    What about the case of killing in a necessary war? If there are at least some cases of this (let's say Arjuna), how would the killing not generate negative karma? Or maybe it would generate negative karma but still be dharmic?
     
  12. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    Lets say a policeman is assigned the duty of patrolling a crime-ridden street. He can play safe out of weakness and cowardice and even take bribes from the local mafia out of greed to keep quiet and look away. In such a scenario he would be generating negative karma for himself. City administrators with a similar attitude of incompetence and corruption will also beget negative karma due to dereliction of duty.

    A duty-conscious policeman however would do his assigned duties diligently and thereby does his part in ensuring a safe and crime-free street. If he has to kill or injure in the line of duty, when all other options are considered nonviable, he does not incur bad karma. However it is important to adhere to due process and do one's due diligence before such action so that there is no cause for repentance or regret later on. Obviously shooting to cripple rather than kill would be more appropriate.

    There have been occasions around the world where police had shot dead innocent civilians out of uneducated suspicion or passion, which has resulted in heavy embarrassment later on.

    Shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes - Wikipedia

    Imo, less lethal guns like taser guns can be used , as well as less lethal bullets like plastic,wooden or rubber bullets in such scenarios. Thus the innocent, even if injured, can still live and get necessary medical treatment if needed to get back to total health.

    A captured criminal is also better than a dead criminal, as he is a good source of crime-related intelligence which can perhaps solve existing or cold cases. So it makes sense to injure and maim a suspect or a criminal rather than shoot recklessly to kill. Obviously weapons and training doctrine can be designed for this purpose.

    Also, the potential for reformation is there in all criminals, due to the Self or Buddha nature within themselves. The examples of Ratnakara and Angulimala, hardened criminals who had reformed and became saints are examples in this regard.

    Constant evolution is part of dharmic duty and not doing so out of inertia or complacency would obviously generate negative karma.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2023
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  13. Chodpa

    Chodpa Senior Member

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    you must do what you are. some will not kill. they will protest even if it results in their jailing. but if you follow the teaching of the bhagavad gita then killing is honorable for country. it is the sanatana dharma. but it is not buddha dharma. depends where you get your dharma from.

    but zen master rama was a suicide. he was not a spiritual master. he was a fraud.
     
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  14. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    Why is killing disallowed in buddha dharma?
     
  15. Chodpa

    Chodpa Senior Member

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    the nature of the buddhadharma is in ahimsa or harmlessness. buddha was very against destruction of the environment and killing especially of animals and especially for ritual sacrifices. he would have been the subject of the ashvamedha sacrifice of 300 horses to inaugurate a new prince. anyway the karma of such killing is against liberation. why is killing against personal liberation? maybe because if one deprives other creatures of their own will one themself cannot expect to have their own will unmolested. nirvana depends upon nirodha which is ths subsidance of karma which can occur naturally through simple relaxation if one has the good karma
     

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