Don't really care about enlightenment

Ah we are different. Since I was 14, psychedelics have ALWAYS been for "enlightenment". If you wanna have fun just go smoke some weed or take some pills. Sure, psychedelics are tons of fun, but I do not take them to have fun.

 

I think he's saying that YES, if LSD vanished, he would be just fine and not magically forget what he's learned. There's a lot of people who want to discredit drugs who will tell you that psychedelic enlightenment only lasts as long as the drug, which is patently untrue, for those who use it right. You make it sound like an addiction to enlightenment, which I consider far from the truth. Or I suppose, you could have an addiction to meditation too, would that be more honorable?

What is wrong with something just being a drug? It sounds like even if you don't consider them inherently bad, the propaganda machine has managed to devalue them for you. Remember that LSD is dealing with seretonin and friends, it's literally poking the stuff that makes you who you are, it's not JUST a drug any more than oxygen is JUST oxygen...... it's just a physical substance, but you, too, are just physical substances.

What is inherently more honorable about meditation? I understand the sheer joy of doing some things, from rebuilding old cars when newer ones exist, to hiking the appalachian trail when you could take the amtrak, but I don't preach that it's cheating to drive a new car or to take the amtrak.

I would again say, the idea that you can spend your whole life meditating and then suddenly feel like you're on acid whenever you want (which I encounter frequently in this sort of discussion) is patently false. You can have the same understandings, but they are unique experiences, and neither is a substitute for the other..... if how you get there is so important, remember how bloody spectatucal LSD is......

 

Our actions follow fun.

Of course you take them to have fun. Just like a monk meditites to have fun...... people say it differently, like he gave up everything for that....... but that's obviously not what it is. If it was no fun or something that he didn't want, he wouldn't do it, especially with all his time to think about what he wants. "fun" is not a negative word, fun is something you like doing.

I resent you grouping "pills" (presumably perscription opiates and the like) with weed, which is easily a psychedelic, though a slower acting one than some. Those pills are evil life-ruining shit, and weed is not only fun, but psycheledic fun of a unique frequently usable type that I'd expect someone with your view of psychedelics to appriciate.

 

The effects of LSD never end. If it was taken off earth right now I would still believe in god and oneness and all the ideas that I came to on acid. I don't claim to be enlightened, and I wouldn't think that any of us truly are. I believe that true enlightenment comes in the form of transcendence from this reality to the next.

I do however, think that we are all travelers on the path to enlightenment. Most of us won't reach it in this life, but I think that the entire human condition is nothing more than a group of travelers on the road towards enlightenment, towards the next step that existence takes. So yes it's more noble to spend years in a monastery searching your mind for the secrets of the world, but without LSD I wouldn't be aware that the secrets of the world are so vast and important. Before trying psychedelics I was very much locked into the mindset that everything is only what I can see and touch and prove to myself, but after experiencing ego death, and coming to feel that I really am connected to everything around me, I now feel as though I'm actively travelling on the road that we all must move down, instead of stuck in a rut thinking it was where I was supposed to be.

If it hadn't been for LSD then I never would've started moving. I wouldn't be living for the goals that I live for now. So no, I wouldn't claim that LSD is an easy ticket to enlightenment, there is nothing like that, but LSD is certainly a catalyst which can start a person off in the right direction, and often does.

It reveals deep truths of reality that we're blind to in our normal lives, and by being shown these things we're then able to move on in life growing on the things we now know. It all depends on the person, but if a person takes LSD and comes to realize that we are all part of the same thing and that there is much more to the world than we understand, then I would say that they have experienced the enlightenment that we talk about. The enlightening effects of LSD. If after taking LSD a person is motivated in the search for enlightenment, then they have experienced the enlightening effects of LSD. I would go so far as to say that no human being is enlightened, because to be so transcends humanity.

 

You keep talking about not assuming we know you or our experiences but you don't hesitate to jumping to conclusions about other people and their "journeys". You assume users who want "enlightenment" are just looking for a soap box to stand on and tell the rest of the world how much better than everyone else they are for taking drugs. Before I continue, I think we need to define enlightenment.

Enlightenment - to give intellectual or spiritual light to; instruct; impart knowledge to

Has using psychedelic drugs given me intellectual and spiritual light? Yes, without a doubt. Has it instructed me? No, by definition an inanimate object cannot instruct. Has it imparted knowledge to me? Not directly, psychedelic drugs can only lead you to the proverbial water, they can't make you drink.

Based on that definition, is it fair to say I've been "enlightened" by psychedelic drugs? Yes, because while the effect of the drug is long gone, what I take from the temporary added ability to analyze the information my brain has to work with I can keep forever. "Divine peace" and "enlightenment" doesn't have to be some sort of journey to find God or anything religious (though it can be, and, for me, it has been), but simply to have new light shed on an aspect of your idea of life or one of your ideas of life.

Now, back to your idea of a "journey". A journey is simply a means of getting to a destination. If the destination is really the most important thing to you, then the journey really isn't important at all, and you're certainly doing yourself a disservice by taking the road that makes it harder for you to get there. If the journey is more important, then you have no set destination, so how hard it is doesn't matter. Think of it as being in the woods. If you didn't want to be in the woods, you would want the shortest, easiest path to get out. If you did want to be in the woods, it wouldn't really matter to you because you're already where you want to be, enjoying the experiences around you.

Having said that, everyone's destination is subjective and different, so you can't judge other people's journeys or stereotype them. My journey is to be as happy as I can within the context of my life. Is psychedelic drug use capable of doing that? Yes. Is living in a Buddhist temple meditating 12 hours a day capable of doing that? The former, yes. The latter, no. If my destination were different, my answer to those two questions could and likely would be very different. Just because one journey is different or harder from another doesn't make one journey more noble than another, they're simply means to an end.

Lastly, I want to bring up your categorization of "drug". Drug is a very broad term. Throwing them all together in one big bag doesn't work. Penicillin and crack cocaine are both by definition drugs, I guess they're the same thing, huh? As a psychedelic drug user, you should understand more than most anyone else that not all drugs are created the same, but if you only have one intention when using any drug, then you will throw them all in one category simply because they really are all the same to you, as in they all have one ultimate effect (destination), even if they all achieve them in different ways in terms of how they chemically alter your body (journey). For someone who uses drugs just for the destination of being high, all drugs are the same because although they have different effects, they will all give it's user a subjective feeling of being "high". This is why we have different categories of "drugs", labels that group them together more effectively (psychedelic drugs, hard drugs, medicine, etc.)

In short, telling someone else how to go about their "journey" is not only condescending, but ineffective. The reasons why you do the things you do are often very different from the reason other people do what they do. As long as someone's lifestyle decisions don't bring harm to other people and their ability to life the lifestyle they want to, let it be. Just like you and me, they have a good reason why they do the things they do and it's their choice.

 

So this person is 19 years old, saying these things and I don't see any bullshit in what he or she is saying. I'm smiling, I'm happy to read this. This is serious business some people are about. Yes, it IS fun sometimes and then beyond fun - beautiful, transcendent.

Thanks for posting that mate.

It's been 25 years since I've taken it and the vision has remained true all this time. And actually, the visions that everything is based on were >40 years ago. It's a long-acting drug LOL.

 

I meant fun as in recreation. Dont get me wrong, I love taking psychedelics, but my reason for taking them is not to have fun. It is fun, I did not deny that. Its more of a ritual for me, kind of like taking a shower. And pillls are not evil, they only ruin lives if the user is irresponsible. In fact, some pharmaceuticals that are recreational can be very beneficial to an individual in numerous ways for numerous intentions for taking them. These chemicals are not really BAD for you, only if you mis use them. Oh, and not everyone can smoke weed, think about the less fortunate.

 

prone, you must REALLY be a hippie if you take L as often as you shower

so when you dose at a furthur show or something...you are really doing it for "enlightenment" as the main reason?

 

Depends on how exactly you define enlightenment, but the way I define it I would say yes I do believe psychedelics can be used for enlightenment. I mean for one they literally cause your brain to take in more of your surroundings as well as any energies present in the setting...so its kind of hard not to come to some enlightening realizations while tripping.

Also though I do not see enlightenment as surpassing worldly suffering...more as understanding things and becoming in tune with yourself as well as surroundings maybe there is a better word for that though.

Why should anyone care if it makes them sound 'insane'? maybe the people who think that are insane.

 

genious

 

I was making a sweeping generalization about scripts and weed. I think it holds for nearly all recreational cases, but of course, not all.

As for the LSD, I think it's a ritual for you because you enjoy it. I think you enjoy it because it's fun.

Enlightenment and spirituality are not JUST for televangelists, they can also be fun for the rest of us:sultan:

I understand that you're saying fun follows function, but I'm saying it's an inherent part of this function.

 

Im doing it for WAY more than enlightenment. If you didnt know already, Im a mo fo'in deadhead and a grateful dead concert is personal enlightenment for me regardless of LSD or no LSD.

 

You are wrong. Espcecially when making a statement about ME. I DO NOT TAKE PSYCHEDELICS FOR FUN, I TAKE THEM TO BETTER MYSELF AND LEARN HOW TO NAVIGATE LIFE IN A MANNER THAT I AM SOUND WITH. Its alot of fun, but dont you dare say fun is my reason for taking them. Because its not.

 

i like certain bands very much too, but i would not say i am being enlightened at their shows

 

"fun" is a childish sounding way of saying that you enjoy something, or find a purpose in it.

You obviously enjoy learning to navigate your life in a manner that you are sound with.... or you would not do it. And to me, to say one enjoys something is to call it fun.

There can be different kinds of fun, but yeah, unless you think you're glass of orange juice, taking LSD tends to be fun, and I think you take it to experience all that does NOT involve being a glass of OJ, so I think you take them for..... fun. Self bettering, human-experience probing, legitimate fun.


Although personally, I could get into being a glass of juice:love:

 

Exactly brother, we finally agree. But one has to come before two.

 

I have also been very much enjoying the benefits of crystals and minerals. Very good energy. I carry a multitude of stones on me at all times.

 

Can you tell me if you're using the term "enlightenment" in the Buddhist sense of the word? or are you using it in this sense.. "to give intellectual or spiritual light to; instruct; impart knowledge to"?

 

I would go so far as to say that the two coexist within the same meaning. Intellectual or spiritual light, instruction, and imparting of knowledge are all things which move us further towards enlightenment. I dont think its accurate to say that anyone is an enlightened being. It would be more accurate to say that some people are closer to enlightenment than others. Psychedelic use helps to propel a person in one direction, most often in my experience, the one that leads toward enlightenment, although a negative trip could achieve the exact opposite.

 

I asked because if comfortablynumb were talking about the Buddhist concept of enlightenment he would, in fact, be talking about escaping worldly suffering by following the eightfold path. The Buddha found the path to enlightenment by passing up all worldly desires. He found it within himself, he didn't have to put it there.