Oh FFS, stop this already, I was never a "Trump supporter". Why say such tripe? I'm only trying to be objective, something I'm not getting from you. I was only speaking to the naive idea that "torture doesn't work". It works quite well, which is a horrifying fact of life that has existed for probably as long as humanity. It was happening in the Americas before the Europeans arrived, it was happening before the Chin dynasty and I don't think any nation or race of people can claim moral high ground on this issue. For all the complaining about torture we see these days, it's just smoke in the wind. Even if we pass "tough laws" against it, governments will still do it, they're doing it now. The only reason it has seen the light of day was because of leaks by conscientious observers. Unfortunately all they accomplished was to paint a target onto themselves, it's not going to stop just because people bitch about it or "protest". It's just not. Any of the torture occurring now by the US is likely held over from the previous administration. Oh thank heaven for plausible deniability.