Don´t remain tied, Darwin has lied

Why doesn´t it answer the question? It is alot wiser to believe that intelligent life was created of one more knowledgeble and powerfull other than coincidence, that all millions of species with different features raging from good sight(eagles) and hearing(bats) to using chemical weapons as the very interesting bombardier beetle which has explosions insead its its body.

Are you seriously claiming that all fish are selfish when many of these creatures devote so much of their energy and time to guard their eggs? Think about insects, like as certain bee type for instance. The queen of the bumblebees searches for a place where she can build a nest then she memorizes its location and start collecting food and building the nest, after that she delivers her eggs and puts them in a symmetricall order, guarding them and when they hatch the bees already have their food ready which the queen has provided, now why should such a small instect go through all that problem and diffucuties when she might bee thrown out if a new queen comes along?
Darwin once said: "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."

If you would study animals you would see that his theory is not just broken but completly perished.

About noahs(peace be upon him) flood, if it covered the whole world as christians claim or not I don´t think I would dare to answer that because of the fear of speaking without knowledge.

And follow not that of which you have no knowledge. Verily, the hearing, and the sight, and the heart of each of those ones will be questioned (by Allah). [17.36]

But I can tell you that Allah(may he be exalted) does not punish a people without their having a messanger sent to them including the people of noah(peace be upon him)

59. And never will your Lord destroy the towns until He sends to their mother town a Messenger reciting to them Our Ayat. And never would We destroy the towns unless the people thereof are wrongdoers.

64. But they belied him, so We saved him and those along with him in the Fulk, and We drowned those who belied Our Ayat. They were indeed a blind people.

I have to come back to you on that one.

What you said about DNA cannot be proved sense we havent seen this little mutation which is suppose to be able to happen even though we live among millions of other species, interesting indeed.

 

It doen not affect our gametes, so it doen not pass to our off sprong...


And I was not calling fish selfish, it is a different, yet eually good reproductive strategy, i have to go to school, so i will post later...

 

cabdirazzaq

Who?
Is ALLAH
And the 'koran' is a mysery to occam

Never heard of the guy..
Care to present his credentials?

[and credentials means REAL THINGS. like you, or your mosque...
or your brother in law.]

Occam

 

If this Dr. Allah has solved all the mysteries of life and has put together the puzzles of the greater picture ...

Hikaru would like to see his degree in astrophysics, psychology, philosophy, medicine, engineering, biotechnology, computer science, quantum physics, fine arts, literature, wold history, and actuarial mathematics.

As certainly all the mysteries of life would require vast amounts of knowledge that only the most learned in this world might have.

 

Well the most learned once said that the world was flat and alot of other things. HE is the most knowledgeble and the one who gives knowledge so how can you compare a creation with a Creator? My lord is truly the one that holds everything together and the one to whom we all shall return. Who is Allah(may he be exalted)?, this is what Moses(peace be upon him) said:
23. Fir`awn said: "And what is the Lord of Al-`Alamin''

24. (Musa) said: "The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, if you seek to be convinced with certainty.''

25. (Fir`awn) said to those around: "Do you not hear (what he says)''

26. (Musa) said: "Your Lord and the Lord of your ancient fathers!''

27. (Fir`awn) said: "Verily, your Messenger who has been sent to you is a madman!''

28. (Musa) said: "Lord of the east and the west, and all that is between them, if you did but understand!''

 

Cabdirazzaq

Yes they did say this,,,And that most learned were the preists of religion.

Between 300 ad and 1300 ad... The most knowledgible persons were those of religion...Yet they proclaimed the world FLAT.

The world was flat because preists said so....
You know this...
Why quibble?

A rational being came along and said it was not.
For saying the moons of jupiter did not orbit earth....
He was forced to recant...

Yet truth cannot be recanted...
The moons of jupiter orbit jupiter.
Not earth.
Earth is not the center of the universe..
Everything is circles in newtonian gravitics

Religion in the west has a strange history...It kept reason alive even though it did not follow it...
I Kept INFORMATION alive...
Calling any information sacred...
IF it did so today...It would be valid...[as it was then]
However..it digressed. It started calling the information...
A possesion of a god..to be given only to the faithfull.

Our world of supercomputers and cybernetics,,,renders that idea a joke.
None of these fields[or the fields that allow them] of undersanding are religious ones..
They are efforts of the rational...
Not the religious.

Occam

 

You seem to cut everbody over one knife now, could you do me a favor and find a quote from the quran which tells us that the world is flat?

"They are efforts of the rational...
Not the religious."

Was not Einstein exploring the works of his lord when doing his research, the same with Isaac Newton and Keppler, Linneaus,J.Dalton, Galilei and many others of the kind?
Will it kill you to believe in Allah(may he be exalted) even though there is tons of other scientists that do today, the problem is that many of these researchers can not accept theory of evolution and they can not put their trust in the bible either which is filled with contridictions so they become an agnostic people without have considered any alternative.

 

Was not Einstein exploring the works of his lord when doing his research, the same with Isaac Newton and Keppler, Linneaus,J.Dalton, Galilei and many others of the kind?
Will it kill you to believe in Allah(may he be exalted) even though there is tons of other scientists that do today, the problem is that many of these researchers can not accept theory of evolution and they can not put their trust in the bible either which is filled with contridictions so they become an agnostic people without have considered any alternative.


Yes...They were

No..it will not kill occam to believe in allah// But give him a good reason to do so?

Can YOU?

What good reason do you propose?
You suggest occam should believe in allah
WHY
What has allah done for occam or anyone else?
Nothing...
but send them to hell
or if they were good..send them to heaven...
The antithesis of hell
And as hell is absurd,,so then is heaven

Occam

 

Well, Occam, one reason would be to save your skin, since many so-called followers of Islam feel that it is their duty to rid the world of me and you and anyone else that does not swallow their story hook, line, and sinker.
I really see a great deal of beauty in the Quran. It states "Allah loveth not the aggressor."
and Muhammed, peace be upon him, taught that women should have every right a man does, 1300 years ago. They had the right to divorce, to vote, to own property, all 1200 years before Canada voted that they were in fact 'persons' and therefore could vote here. then in 1960, Canada even went so far as to extend that same privilege to the First Nations people too.
I am at a loss regarding how so many people who are Muslim can justify their hatred, when the Prophet taught His followers to treat all believers fairly, meaning Jews and Christians. I would still be left out, but hey it would be a start.

 

Hikaru respects everyone who believes in the Quran and actually follows it (equal rights for women, fair treatment, not being aggressive, etc.). However, Hikaru has yet to meet even one person who meets those criteria. Every Allah-follower Hikaru has ever met has been merely a tool of some other god, not the true Allah they claim to serve.

 

BlackGuard

Agreed.
Have only read bits of the quran...
Where are the bits that say any who do not believe it should die?

To occam, religion has worth...As a way of life..
It is a thing many seem to need..and that is fine.

But 'organised religion' the egos of the powerfull in those organisations..
Seem to think they know best...
Based on the book..[or using it as an excuse]
Yet the book does not speak for humanity.
As humanity includes all, and most dont believe the book.
Then 'organised religion' are fools.

Organised religion can ONLY EVER BE A SMALL PART OF OUR THINKING.
OR our acts.
Example.
What has religion to do with 'fusion power research'
nothing.
But it will one day provide all electrical power.
A thing that allows modern society.

Organised religion..as a human control method..MAY one day control fusion power plants.
Will they kill the non muslims/christians who run them, NO

They will offer them life or death options..SAY you are a moslem/christian, And all will be well.
Fools. Control freaks. Power

Occam

 

Hikaru

Occam has met some who are truly peacefull. Yet they were cowed by the dogma of their religion.

Maybe religion is OK..[as a social system]

Its the fuckers on earth who run the religions that are the evil of it.

Occam

 

Do you say the quran is free of contradictions?

Occam

 

Yes that´s what I am saying, I claim that it´s free from contradictions

4.82. Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely, have found therein contradictions in abundance

 

On the whole I find religious devotees to be good, ethical, caring people, and their leaders to be, on the whole, slimeballs.

I met a couple who are involved at the highest levels of the Canadian Ismaili Muslims, and to be totally blunt, I have not met any nicer people. Some who were as nice, but none nicer. Their net worth is in the hundreds of millions of dollars, they invited me for dinner, and when I declined cuz I had a class that night, they made me up a package of roti's and a can of pop for the road.
The wealthiest people I have met, and also, as warm, sincere, joyous and modest as anyone I have ever met.
I believe that the minority of radical fundamentalists just get all the press in any group, be it teenagers, Church goers, gays, etc., whereas the vast majority are never acknowledged because not doing something isnt good press.

 

What has religion to do with 'fusion power research'
nothing.
But it will one day provide all electrical power.
A thing that allows modern society.

Who are you who knows the future so certainly. I am curious. I would give fusion as one of the possibilities. What about the energy that was harnessed to build Coral Castles in Florida, is that not also a possible power source of the future? Or tidal power, wind power, solar power, geo thermal power, but I digress.
I've just always wanted to say I digress for some reason, don't know why, I just like the sound of it. It sounds so authoritative. lol

 

Have only read bits of the quran...
Where are the bits that say any who do not believe it should die?

that is exactly my point, it says the opposite. I have observed over and over in all organized religions, that the leaders have this amazing ability to take a phrase and spin it so much that it ends up being taught as the opposite of what is actually written. The Quran tells Muslims to deal fairly, and respect fellow believers, ie. Jews and Christians.
I am unsure of what it advises re: atheists, animists, witches, etc. but no doubt whatever it says is being spun to mean kill them all by false Muslims like Osama.

 

That is a bold claim, cabdirazzaq, but I can accept it. Can you accept my beliefs as being as true and valid as yours, even though I am more of a semi-Buddhist/Traditional Tribal Spirituality believer?

 

Thank you for accepting my believes but you must understand that my whole life is founded on the belief that my religion is correct and in that I find no doubts and I will not let anyone ever drag me away from it either by preaching or by force and I would rather be crucified than to say that Im a disbeliever because every pleasure I hold so dear comes from my religion and giving it up is like giving away my life which would then have lost all meaning, the point with me writing this is for you to understand that I can´t just as easily as you can say that I accept your view as correct because that would make me go against that which I believe in. I do not believe in that which you do but that doesn´t mean that I shouldn´t treat you with the amount of kindness I have recieved from you.

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.[60.8]

 

You have written this very well.
I understand and respect the faith you have.
There is one question, and it is a sincere one.

Where is Allah?
Is he in space?
Is he in a spirit world?
Is he the universe, and if so, how is he it. Is he a dimension that we cannot percieve?
Where do the martyrs go?

I ask these questions as I am searching for God.
One could almost say that God has found me, but like a shadow when the light is upon it, it defies close scrutiny.

Thanks

strawpup