Does the military belong in schools?

eggsprog · Nov 6, 2013

When you're trying to change someone's opinion, it is up to you to provide the evidence to the contrary, not to try and condescendingly convince them to search out what you want them to.

storch · Nov 6, 2013

Come on, eggsprog, you googled it. Why don't you argue this side of it? Or have you, too, already made up your mind about it?

LornaDoom · Nov 6, 2013

LornaDoom said:

ACLU Slams JROTC as Violation of International Law
by Marc Norton‚ May. 20‚ 2008
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The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) released a major report last week stating that the Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps (JROTC) violates a protocol of the United Nations-sponsored Convention on the Rights of the Child, by targeting students as young as 14 for recruitment to the military.

"The United States military's procedures for recruiting students plainly violate internationally accepted standards and fail to protect youth from abusive and aggressive recruitment tactics," according to Jennifer Turner of the ACLU Human Rights Project.

The international protocol analyzed by the ACLU report outlaws the recruitment of child soldiers. The U.S. Senate ratified this protocol in 2002, making it the law of the land, and agreed not to recruit soldiers under the age of 17. However, as usual, the U.S. military sees itself as above the law.

As any dunderhead can see, JROTC -- a prime recruitment tool of the military -- includes high school students well under the age of 17, including many freshmen and sophomores.

The San Francisco school board voted in November 2006 to end JROTC in San Francisco schools this June. Last December, the school board extended JROTC for another year, until June 2009. However, the JROTC Must Go! Coalition continues to press the board to end JROTC now. (See "JROTC Must Go Now" in the May 14 Bay Guardian.)

The release of the new ACLU report on May 13, titled "Soldiers of Misfortune," only adds fuel to the fire of the anti-JROTC movement.

The ACLU report also takes aim at one of the spurious claims of the pro-JROTC forces -- that JROTC is "voluntary." It is worth quoting the ACLU report at length on this:

"Students are involuntarily placed in the JROTC program in some public schools. For example, teachers and students in Los Angeles, California reported that 'high school administrators were enrolling reluctant students in JROTC as an alternative to overcrowded gym classes.' Involuntary placement of Los Angeles students has been a continuing problem, with involuntary enrollment surging before the fall deadline that requires enrollment levels of 100 students to keep the program running (federal law requires JROTC programs to have a minimum of 100 students or 10% of the student body, whichever is less, in order to maintain a unit)."

According to a recent survey of over 800 San Francisco JROTC students, 15.6% of the cadets who responded claimed that they were "placed in the program without my consent." Reports of SF students being placed involuntarily in JROTC go back to at least 1995, during a previous attempt by members of the school board to abolish JROTC.

In Buffalo, New York, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union, the entire incoming freshmen class at Hutchinson Central Technical High School was involuntarily enrolled in JROTC in 2005.

The Pentagon has a long and deadly reach. It is criminal that they continue to send our young men and women to foreign lands like Iraq to fight and die in illegal and immoral wars. It is intolerable that the San Francisco school board continues to aid and abet the Pentagon -- allowing them to flaunt international law with impunity by recruiting our 14, 15 and 16 year old sons and daughters for their war-mongering.
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I don't want this to get lost on the last page...truth^^^^^

Sig · Nov 6, 2013

LornaDoom said:

I don't want this to get lost on the last page...truth^^^^^
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The examples you gave are from 2008 or earlier, and are no longer the case today. Next.

LornaDoom · Nov 6, 2013

and you are sadly mistaken if that is what you think..if anything, as the war machine grows, so does the recruitment

Sig · Nov 6, 2013

LornaDoom said:

and you are sadly mistaken if that is what you think..if anything, as the war machine grows, so does the recruitment
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The fuck? Have any current examples?

LornaDoom · Nov 6, 2013

do I need to write it in crayon?

Sig · Nov 6, 2013

LornaDoom said:

do I need to write it in crayon?
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I'd prefer you write something other than out of date information and conjecture.

LornaDoom · Nov 6, 2013

Sig said:

You claimed that it is used involuntarily sometimes. All I want is an example.
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remember this? now you are saying it is out of date..haha

eggsprog · Nov 6, 2013

storch said:

Come on, eggsprog, you googled it. Why don't you argue this side of it? Or have you, too, already made up your mind about it?
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I have not, and I don't really care to bother because I don't care and it isn't my country. I just think that you're acting childish.

Sig · Nov 6, 2013

LornaDoom said:

remember this? now you are saying it is out of date..haha
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I thought current was implied. I should have been more specific, apparently.

LornaDoom · Nov 6, 2013

Sig said:

I thought current was implied. I should have been more specific, apparently.
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maybe so...

edit: and I am done in this thread..have a good day sir

Ranger · Nov 6, 2013

Sig said:

The examples you gave are from 2008 or earlier, and are no longer the case today. Next.
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And your proof of your contention is what/where Sig? And btw, your branch of the service is?

eggsprog · Nov 6, 2013

I don't think he really need proof. He is saying that the program is supposed to be voluntary. Others are saying that there are cases of that not being true. Sig asks for evidence of those cases, and is told that he should find it himself? Why not just post examples?

Sig · Nov 6, 2013

Ranger said:

And your proof of your contention is what/where Sig? And btw, your branch of the service is?
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Marines.

Ranger · Nov 6, 2013

And the proof? USCG here.

Sig · Nov 6, 2013

Ranger said:

And the proof? USCG here.
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That it is supposed to be voluntary? Puddle Pirate.....

Ranger · Nov 6, 2013

Yeah, we're the boy's you jar heads call when you get in too deep. WW II & Nam USCG had more casualties than any other service percentage wise due to hauling ya'll onto the beach and upcountry and then picking you up when things get too hot for you.

Sig · Nov 6, 2013

Ranger said:

Yeah, we're the boy's you jar heads call when you get in too deep. WW II & Nam USCG had more casualties than any other service percentage wise due to hauling ya'll onto the beach and upcountry and then picking you up when things get too hot for you.
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Sure about all that? The numbers don't agree....

Ranger · Nov 6, 2013

I did say "percentage wise". I'm sure on the WW II data and of course at least half of us weren't ever in Nam if you ask the VA.

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