Do you think there is a god?

they are not the reason i dont beleive in god. the point i was trying to make was that these people are trying to guide me into their religion, yet they dont give me any reason to take it seriously. me and my friends hang out downtown every friday night, and there are about 30 of these christian people from a local church that go around and gang up on people trying to argue with them about religion and totally dismissing anything the other person has to say. every time i bring up a good argument with them they just make up some stupid hypothetical question that has nothing to do with what i just said. every christian that has ever approached me was like that. i think i was mostly talking about people like that. im sorry to have offended anyone, i wasnt saying that everyone was like that.

 

No need to apologize and I appreciate your candor. It is very frustrating, I know. People often beleive what they are handed and very few ever take the initiative to look past the tiny box they were born into (religious and non-religious alike).

You should try being a theist agnostic for a few days! The religious folks attack you AND the non-religious folks attack you.

All I am saying is that I think the hugest crime modern religions are committing today is forcing people to reject the possibility of God because they have defined their faith around precepts which just do not stand up in the modern world. Creationism, arks full of animals, walking on water, etc. etc. They push and push and spread their stories without ever thinking about the fact that God (in whatever form it may exist) has NOTHING to do with all that.

All I am saying is that in all my years of searching I have yet to come up with a good reason why a bunch of particles being effected only by the basic laws of physics and chaos whould create a bunch of ultra-complex thinking apes. Life has been approaching something for three billion years and chalking that up to coincidence is the grandest leap of faith I have heard of.

 

And when you have know preconcieved beliefs at all, you get attacked by believers, non-belivers, and theist agnostic.

 

I do not attack you Gecko and I have always respected your comments on this site. Contrary to your beleif I do not have pre-conceived beleifs. I think you are a wise and valuable addition to these forums... That is why I am simply insulted that you seem to perceive me as an enemy and insult me to further your comments. I just don't understand... I think we seek truth. I think we follow logic. I think we are on the same team. But then you confuse me... even sound like a bible thumper who lost his bible at times. I tend to think derisive comments come from those with closed minds but you manage to mystify me on that one.

 

Let me get this straight. You believe that there isn't a God because religious people (mainly Christians) are hipocritical. The hipocracy of human beings does not dictate the presence of a superior being. In fact, what other people say and/or do should in no way shape what you believe.

 

read what i wrote back to popthree13. and you spelled hypocritical wrong.

 

To blindly belive anything is unhealthy, and religeon itself is dangerous. It is a virus wich infects our need have a purpose, and that is very dangerous, because that is the power behind love, wanting to have children, the desire to create, and every drastic thing we do. Some relgeons are like the ebola virus, killing members so fast they die off, this would be suicide cults, some spread very well by leaving victems alive and contagious a long time, herpes/cristianity, some spread extreemly quicky because they make the victem chenge in a way that causes them to spead it rabies/morman. Just like viruses apear because the complex genetic system ocationally breaks off a peice, and its only a mater of time till one that spreads itself emerges and becomes a virus, like wise there are many humam minds full of thougts, and its only a matter of time untill a thought emerges that spreads. viruses infect where there is a source of something with an other purpose, like the glands wich are suposed to produce chemicals for the body and instead end up feeding a virus, religeon enters peoples minds and grows off of their need to have a purpose, wich is suposed to drive them to learn and love. And much like a stomach flue makes a person not hungy, a religeon makes a person not feel like somethings missing, but as with the stomach flu, the person who is no longer hungry, is starving

 

Please .. Gecko.
Occam has found popthree13 to be a wise and reasonable person.
Open minded.
the statement
"All I am saying is that in all my years of searching I have yet to come up with a good reason why a bunch of particles being effected only by the basic laws of physics and chaos whould create a bunch of ultra-complex thinking apes. Life has been approaching something for three billion years and chalking that up to coincidence is the grandest leap of faith I have heard of."

Is a powerfull understanding. It is one that occam agrees with.

The immense complexity/ballance of reality.
The very laws that govern such...
Are random?
Occam thinks not.
Why is there complexity.? It is not needed for ANYTHING but self aware beings.
One human being is more complex a structure than than a galactic black hole.
And there are 6.3 billion of us.

If reality is random. There should only be simplicity.
Not complexity.
Complexity serves only one purpose.
MIND.

One must stand true to inderteminate states of understanding in a world that screams " you must believe something"

Yes..reason states absolutely. That we dont know enough yet to say
WHAT IS. In relation to direction in this reality..purpose.

This in NO WAY means there is no direction.

The very existence of organisation and systems.
Indicates that that there is a systemic heirarchy.
Such to US. Means we are in the middle. between bacteria and ...?

Occam

 

Popthree13,

I always respected your point of view, but I will simply not tolerate personal attacks. When you said I should be locked up and studied, That's a personal attack.

Attack my ideas and statements all you want- but I must be allowed to do the same.

I am a writer, and I can play the insult game as well as any.

What I can't do is ask questions without people asuming I'm anti-this or that. And I can't participate in "Faith" of any kind. Nor can I accept unsubstantiated ideas being presented as fact.

I niethier believe nor disbelieve in god; I don't even know what that means. And I'm not alone.

No one else here can describe thier god. Any attempts to do so must be taken as Truth on Faith or the explainer has a fit. God forbid I ask a question.

The sad part is, I'm the only one looking for this alledged god. Everyone else seems secure in some inspired knowledge or content not to know.

So I part with this:

I may not know what or if some god is, but I can give you a reasonable explanation of where god could be and that explantion includes the principle of omnipotence.

 

Fair enough Gecko and thanx Occam...

I sincerely didn't mean to insult you with that statement although I did intent to use a bit of hyperbole to project my point. I din't mean you should be locked up like an animal, instead that if you have realistic information backing up what was being said on that thread it would be of utmost interest to some of the top physicists and particle scientists on earth. Like... 'if they concede that physical reality is unpredictable, your predicitons might herald a new age of science!' Yes, I was being sarcastic, but I did not intend to deface you in any way.

Nonetheless I apologize. I hope our conversations can remain as constructive as possible! ~Peace.

 

"The sad part is, I'm the only one looking for this alledged god. Everyone else seems secure in some inspired knowledge or content not to know."

I agree entirely.

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you."
- Pop proverb.

"Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened."
- Ancient Christian text.

 

Gecko

The only one....plus X [occam is part of variable X]


Occam

 

1. Why are we here?
2. How should I act?
3. What kind of person should I be?

Science can't answer these questions, so ppl who are afraid to answer these on their own use god to answer them. There is no god, it's just a bunch of ppl who think they need to be controlled, and told who to be. I don't believe in a higher power, because I don't need any list of rules because I go by the way I feel, and not by wheather or not i'm "sinning". I also think it's funny the way ppl go about their entire lives by the bible, and then when it ends, they are broken down into soil.....and then their life as a human was dedicated to nothing. Be yourself and do what YOU think is right. YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE!

 

liveonce13

Incorrect.
Science does not say there is no god.
Science says it does not know.
Reason says it does not know.
Athiesm is just like theism [belief in a god]
Both. believe that which reason/science can not determine.
Agnosticism is the voice of reason.
It does not know.
There is nothing wrong with not knowing.
Though religion would tell you otherwise.
[ego]

Occam

 

"liveonce13

Incorrect.
Science does not say there is no god.
Science says it does not know.
Reason says it does not know.
Athiesm is just like theism [belief in a god]
Both. believe that which reason/science can not determine.
Agnosticism is the voice of reason.
It does not know.
There is nothing wrong with not knowing.
Though religion would tell you otherwise.
[ego]

Occam"
Dear Occam,

Thank you dear friend for the wonderful and much-necessary-post.
Your sharp razor did it again, it did not discriminate and performed a perfect surgery.

I was feeling sick but then your post healed me thoroughly.I love you.
I adore you. Please keep up your good job of not critcizing but showing the right and wrong.

Thanks again.

With lots of love...........Kumar.

 

I've experienced no reason to believe in a god so I assume there is not one.

 

But then again...have you assumed a reason not to? Sometimes we need to follow our hearts instead of our reason...for I believe there will be a time when reason will fail us...and those who depend on only reason will be quite lost indeed...

 

Iconoclast... Valid argument I guess. I certainly can't refute it. If there is a God though I don't think it would be that obvious. If it exists, it might effect/be effected by everything. Your experience has been explained to you and you have accepted that explaination. I know how we all evolved to this point but what I can't get my head around is why.

 

I believe that I have already stated that I assume the negative.

I honestly have no idea what this statement means.

 

Why?

Or it might not. I have no information so I assume the negative.

I have no idea what is meant by this.

I am unsure how we have evolved to this point. Any why question without knowledge of an intender is answerable so I find it unproductive and, therefore, useless.