Do You Think The Buddha Ever Really Existed?

Discussion in 'Buddhism' started by ChinaCatSunflower02, Nov 17, 2015.

  1. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    Yeah but the other thread isn't about Christianity, it's about Jesus and whether he existed or not.

    If you don't feel that the goal and aim of Buddhism isn't Enlightenment and the core teachings aren't based on Buddha's Enlightenment then please post a source that says this.
     
  2. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    I'd say some types of Hinduism share similarities with Buddhism, by no means all of them. For instance, the Vaishnava schools generally teach a kind of dualism, where the Jivatman, or individual soul, is eternally separate from God. In these schools, the soul can come to know God and get liberation, but not merge into the Brahman. The Hare Krishna movement (Gaudia Vaishnavas) fall approximately into this category..(they call their version 'qualified non-dualism' but I don't want this to get too complicated)

    Probably the closest to Buddhism would be Advaita Vedanta as originated by Shankararcharya. Interestingly, some scholars say that Shankara was Hinduism's response to Buddhism. In short, Advaita means non dual, and Shankara is a monist. Brahman is the One Reality, and all else,the entire cosmos, individual souls included, is illusion or Maya.


    A quote I like in relation to the difference between these 2 directions taken by Hinduism comes from Ramakrishna who said "I want to taste sugar, not become sugar"
    Conversely, he also told the story of a salt doll that wanted to see the ocean, but when it entered it got dissolved.


    The situation with the soul in Hinduism is complicated, and there are different accounts. In general, the idea is that the Atman is unborn and undying, It isn't in the body (which in this context includes the mind) but is one with Brahman. A step down from the Atman is the Jiva or Jivatman. This is thought of as a kind of reflection in the lower world of the Atman. The Jiva is what is described as the individual living entity (it's in animals as well as humans)

    Others say the Jiva also is not in the body, but a kind of form of it enters the body and is called the Chaitya Purusha. In the ordinary consciousness, we are not aware of it. It has to be uncovered through the processes of yoga. It is this that re-incarnates and evolves towards knowledge through successive lives. It is also this that is behind our present consciousness.
    All the rest,ego, mind, life, the elements of nature etc are seen as in Buddhism as a kind of aggregate. I think the best conception of it in Hindu terms is that the soul is both one with and different from God at the same time.It's something like layers of an onion with satchitananda Brahman at the centre.

    'Gnosis' means knowledge in the same sense as the sanskrit 'Jnana'. Knowledge of the Divine or God. Gnostic schools seem to have been quite varied, but I think you're right that they were all pretty much dualistic in their idea of the soul and God.

    About the most developed account of the soul I know of by a Catholic mystic is St. Teresa of Avila's 'Interior Castle or The Mansions'. This though uses an allegorical form to talk about the soul and it's inward journey towards God. It isn't what you'd call philosophical in form, more like a visionary creative work.
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I am not talking about the other thread.

    The teachings of Buddhism are based on a system attributed to Siddhartha Gautama. The key word is attributed.

     
  4. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    Vajrayana Buddhism would also fall into this category, which embraces the concepts of Kundalini Awakening. Not even all branches try to embody the teachings, but rather are just a form of intellectual philosophy. "Vajrayana, in the history of Buddhism, marks the transition from Mahayana speculative thought to the enactment of Buddhist ideas in individual life."

    The Serpent Power, or Kundalini, is often equated with the Christian Holy Spirit.
     
  5. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    Wouldn't it not matter to a non-dualistic mind whether a religious path, such as Gnosticism, were dualistic or non-dual? Wouldn't true non-duality not really see why it matters? You can call it heads and tails, or you can call it a coin, but it's still the same thing.
     
  6. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    If you mean should a non dualist loose any sleep over the question of the dualism or otherwise of gnosticism, I'd say not at all. It's just that there are fine distinctions in different religions and philosophies.

    You can call it what you will, but the thing is the aim of different systems is different. As I outlined above, different schools of Hinduism have different goals. For one it's eternal existence as an individual in the close presence of, but separate from God. For the other it's an ending of all separative existence, a merging into God.

    I don't know enough about gnosticism to be able to say how they conceived of or experienced gnosis.
     
  7. I keep saying it doesn't have to be the case, but nobody ever talks about the wisdom of Christ's teachings. Except in church, and then they don't talk about it in Buddhist terms like you do. It's just "Hey folks let's all try to be good to each other. Also, the devil is a trickster."

    The only way Christianity is going to have the same respect given to it as Buddhism is if people start practicing as you describe the gnostics practicing. But I don't really think anybody is interested in practicing Christianity like that. They'll just go for Buddhism.

    The problem is that Buddhism has always been about discipline. Some people want Christ to just have the authority in the first place to tell us how to live our lives, but it's no use. His words won't have any authority until people start practicing them and attaining some degree of enlightenment from them. I would really be interested to see a thread that details one of Christ's teachings and how it can lead to enlightenment. I doubt it's going to happen, though, because, for some reason, people just don't want to talk about it. Maybe when push comes to shove they're just too lazy to try and follow Christ. Maybe westerners just aren't all that interested in becoming enlightened. We just pretty much take our culture for granted and hope everything works out for the best and that's the height of our philosophy. Go to work, go to school, argue about whether Jesus existed, repeat.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    sidartha guitama was a real human person, just as likely as not, was jesus of nazarith. people about whom, legends grew in the telling. legends who's details may have been further tweaked for the sake of making them prototype examples for the purpose of teaching moral lessons. how much the result has come to resemble their actual lives, is anyone's guess.
     
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  9. Chodpa

    Chodpa Senior Member

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    buddha started teaching at age 31 and taught until 81 - he has more actual teachings than any other philosopher in history - his original works are the pali canon and divided by their lengths - short, medium and long - buddha was real
     
  10. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    If the Buddha was a myth, I think the myth could be studiously explored by practicing the teachings,and seeing if there is any tangible results after a span of time and accurate practice, the main thing being the cessation of suffering . If there are tangible results, then you can say that there is substance in the teachings whether the Buddha is a myth or not.

    The Buddha had himself stated thus, "O monks and wise men, just as a goldsmith would test his gold by burning, cutting and rubbing it, so must you examine my words and accept them, not merely out of reverence for me."

    So do your own theoretical and practical research and find out for yourself. Reverence for the Buddha is not the key to understanding Buddhism, but your own study and work habits.


    The true aim of Buddhism is the cessation of suffering by connecting the human being with his natural state.
     
  11. StellarCoon

    StellarCoon Dr. Professor

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    may have may have not, im sure there have many people who fit the description of "Buddha" throughout the whole of human existence. ultimately what's important is the philosophy not the philosopher

    the philosopher is like a finger pointing to the moon. don't focus on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory
     

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