Do We (Nudists) Really Know , What We Want?

[FONT=&quot]Dear Hip-Friends:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Since months I participate here and in a German nudity forum. Last week, here in Brazil, during a reality show, there was an interview with 2 likeable naturists, who claimed for legalization of public nudity.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For my big surprise, the most important menace against us are not the non-nudists but the scruples, doubts and prejudices of ourselves.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the Holy Bible Jesus Christ said (Mathew 12:25): “Every empire, which is split within itself, will perish. And no city, no family, which is split within itself, will survive!”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1st) Those “bad” Peeping Toms are not bad at all.:bobby:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* If I stay totally nude and everything is visible, I hardly can claim, if others really look at.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* But if the other may look, he also is allowed to remember.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* But then he may take photographs or film of, what he was allowed to see, because photo and video are nothing else than materialized memories.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* Furthermore, if I show myself naked, others may talk or write about it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* Finally I cannot impede, who sees me nude, to think and to have feelings. So I cannot hinder him, to have sexual fantasies about it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All this is no neo-liberalism at all, but pure and cool logics.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2nd) “Natural” nudity without sex:sultan:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Simply does not exist![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Siegmund Freud probably has been the first to state that human behavior is just interweaved by sexuality, which is not limited to coitus only.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We reproduce because of lust for life, because we have to die. Lust for life we may call the 2nd name for sexuality.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]* Food ingestion is essential to stay alive, so it has some erotic element: “all love passes through your stomach.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* Who trains his body, in the wilderness we all are from, will have better chances to survive. Girls are crazy for sportsmen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* Self-realization contains sexuality: the famous orgasm we have after a big personal success.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* Finally we enjoy and play with our bodies: tattoos, piercing, ornaments and body painting and at last but not least nudism![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Shoes and clothes protect and hide imperfections. But it makes fun totally naked to brave nature and weather.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is also funny to feel and touch our world around by the use of our complete skin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We tan ourselves stripless to become more attractive.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We live in 2013, but nudity may be our time travel into stone age.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Often nudity is thought to be simply comfortable.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Conclusions:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] even the so-called clean naturism has its erotic roots in our minds.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Who denies this fact fools oneself about.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]3rd) This goes too far…[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Guy, suddenly your penis increases 3 times and finally stands up: “ Help me, the other nudists will kick me out!”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Girl, your nipples have clearly an erection, your vagina becomes moist, but you have removed your pubic hairs: “Really nobody will see it?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Naturism comes from nature. Spontaneous sexual excitement is as natural as nudity itself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If somebody becomes visibly excited by your nude presence, ask friendly: “Do you really consider me so beautiful?” Generally the “spell is broken” immediately, so is the embarrassment, too.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]4th) Out of consideration for those who do not accept public nudity…[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If I see anything which I hate to see, I can and should look to a different direction. But to expect that world changes, in order not to expose me to anything I do not like, is just puerile, like a 6-year-old child.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But non-nudists treat us exactly this manner.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There does not exist any Human Right for intolerance. It manifests by the complete lack of respect to the others. How intolerant people then may claim for being respected themselves?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 5th) Consideration for children and old people…[/FONT]:wheelchair:
[FONT=&quot]They are the 5th column in the argumentation of the intolerants.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If nudity, for being natural, does not harm adults nor their emotional life, being seen or being experienced, staying naked oneself, it simply cannot trouble nor be harmful to children nor to old people.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]To state the contrary is a myth, worthy for the American TV-series “Myth Busters”.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]6th) Naked photographs: the nightmare of pornography![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]* I cannot impede anybody to take a naked photo of mine or better a more beautiful nudist brother or sister, to look at it and to masturbate.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But not even by this fact it has become pornography.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The word comes from the Old Greek:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“porneia” = fornication,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“-graphy” = to draw or to represent something.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thus the representation of fornication:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]coitus, masturbation, sodomy, gestures or poses that invite to coitus![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Merely a portrayal of a very beautiful guy or a true female angel, both completely nude are no pornography at all.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Definitely don’t let them fool you about it![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]* What about true pornography?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Accompanied by my wife I assist some of it: just inspiration for our marriage bed! There is its correct place.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But if a naked girl on a photo offers me her widely opened vagina: no merit of any attention at all! Why? Even when I wear clothing, I avoid prostitutes.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As conclusion I recommend you, nudism brothers and sisters, stand by yourself, by your nudity, by your sexuality and just love life itself!
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Greetings: Toivo[/FONT]

 

Insightful, I think the nudism=non-sexual is so that nudist can make themselves look good to textiles so they can gain acceptance? Sad to say but I don't think public nudity will ever be accepted by wider community. But hang on a minute, what about those tribal societies that live in complete harmony with nature and no clothes? I guess it works for them but not us IDK, such a complex issue I would say.

 

We can sometimes be our worst enemy.

Hmmm.

Nah, they're just jealous because I have a lot of something they have only a little of.

Actually, I've seen it and done it. It's...different.

I live to eat and eat to live!

I agree!

I agree!

It's all a matter of intent.

 

Toivo, I am sorry but I just can't respond to anything that mixes up sex and naturism. The whole basis of any discussion we might have makes so little sense to me, that I just don't think I can contribute anything useful.

However, a coincidence occurred. In an earlier thread where you mentioned your visits to the Indian tribe that your wife belongs to, I said that their customs vary a lot, and I heard of one ethnic group where a woman who isn't married runs the risk of being raped by any man who meets her (and so much for the innocence of Eden!) At the time I couldn't remember where I heard that, but I've now found out that it was in reports by Kenneth Good, who spent a long time in the 1970s and 80s living among the Yanomani people on the Brazil-Venezuela border. While he was there he married a local woman, Yarima--which led to some ethical questions, because she was no more than 12 when they were betrothed (apparently marriage can be a gradual process for the Yanomani) and "about 15" when they started having sex. Anyway, the two of them moved back to the USA and eventually had 3 children, but she was never happy and returned to her own people. What I saw was a report on the BBC website about how one of the sons of Kenneth Good and Yarima went up the Orinoco to find his mother. And he did find her, but disappointed her by refusing to stay there permanently! It makes a very interesting story, and now that I've been reminded of Kenneth Good, I'm going to read his book; I know it's in the local library.

Here's the article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23758087

 

Nudists/naturists are supposedly tolerant of all shapes, sizes, colors, age, etc. Yet if a naturist becomes noticeably aroused, he is suddenly an outcast. This seems to be a little bit of an irony.

 

I think its because nudist are trying sooo hard to protect their reputation that they're willing to castaway these people.

 

Dear Friend:

1st) To say so, is like "I'm a Christian, but do not believe in God"!

2nd) What will be next? …that there are tribes, which eat human meat and others, which bury babies alive?

And, talking about the raping of women: how do we, the so-called "civilized", treat people, who do not want to marry any time? Aren't we cruel, too?
Psychiatrists say, seriously, that women who do not want to marry, generally are all schizophrenic. Sure, this is nonsense.
* But girl, if such a "hole" puts you into a lunatic asylum, what will you do? A lawyer may free you from jail, but not from a fool's institution. You will just be lost and completely defenseless.
* Boy, heterosexuals will discriminate you as a gay. Gays will discriminate you as a traitor, because you do not behave like a gay. All will hate you.
Where's the difference to tribe's cruelty? I do not see any!

3rd) A marriage between a white boy and a pretty Yanomami Indian girl failed. Other matrimonies frequently also divorce. What about it? Would you therefore want to banish love between tribe's men or women and so-called "civilized"?

You never related anything good about tribe's people, since I meet you in this forum. I have the impression that you, in realty, are not worried at all about their happiness, but that you, deep in your heart, disdain all so-called "primitive" people. Are you from the Ku-Klux Clan?

Yours truly: Toivo