Do Nations Matter?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by fraggle_rock, Mar 21, 2015.

  1. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    nations choose to make themselves not matter, when they are usurped by economic interests, instead of providing real services to real living ordinary people.
     
  2. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Everyone identifies with those who reside with them on their own little island.

    Even here in the shadows of Manhattan's skyscrapers there are those inward looking communities who's residents might as well be a million miles away.
    It is a psychological island they live on.

    So how to identify with fellow proletiariat in far away places?

    I think everyone on Hip Forums identified with the garment workers in India when the shoddy factory collapsed upon their heads killing and injuring many.

    But how to consistently identify with overseas proletiariat ?

    The news cycles identify overseas production workers as beneficiaries of free trade agreements that have sent jobs to less developed nations.
     
  3. atsizat9050

    atsizat9050 Members

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    Nation doesn't matter but country does.
     
  4. IamnotaMan

    IamnotaMan I am Thor. On sabba-tickle. Still available via us

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    I dont think Britain exists as a country now.
    Its laws are made in Brussels. Walk down the street and most people in many areas are West Indian/African and Indian/Pakistani.
    Speak to the ones you think are British, and it'll emerge they are Polish. Even the young white kids in many areas have picked up a weird variation of a Pakistani/West Indian accent! (The London "cockney" accent, for example, has disappeared amongst under 25s).

    Ring up a bank or other company, and the call is likely to be answered by an Indian. BUt you won't know if its one in India, OR one who moved to England, or one who's 35 yrs old and was born in England. They are often indistinguishable.

    If you work hard and do well, you have to pay 50% tax. IYet if you are the British born child of a foreign billionaire, you can pay less than 0.1% tax. Weird!

    Most British companies have been replaced in the High St. Usually to Starbucks, McDonalds, Nike, Gap etc, and a few European brands. No taxes are paid and the profits all go offshore. Little of what we buy is even British made. You can get arrested for "offending Islam" (but not Christianity!) And walk down the street on a Friday and you prob have to step over 100s of Muslims praying on the pavement. I could go on, but you get the idea..
     
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Lam

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Well the kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is made up of Wales, Scotland, a part of Ireland and England. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]In fact I think the recent independence election in Scotland showed how strong those identities are. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]No, that is disingenuous at best. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]And most were born in Britain, there are people in the UK of Celtic, German, French, Scandinavian decent as well. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]English is a developing language and its accents are varied and changeable, try reading Beowulf or Chaucer or Shakespeare, and also some areas of Britain still retain local dialects. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]This seems a bit confused can explain your thinking? [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]The higher tax rate at the moment is 40% and that is only for those earning 150,000 or above that’s around the same for Germany and France while for Sweden it is 57%, [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]The reason for foreign billionaire paying so little is because our right wing politicians have a belief in the discredited neo-liberal idea of ‘trickle down’ economics. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Again look to the right wing neo-liberal ideas that have been dominant in the UK since the 80’s. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]And it is not just on the high street, the French and German governments own a fair proportion of our railway and utility infrastructure, UK rightwing ideology was for privatization rather than direct investment, the assts were brought up by French and German companies owned by their governments and now the British tax payers give money to those companies which then benefit the French and German tax-payers who reap the profits. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    Now you are taking the piss ‘stepping over 100s of Muslims praying on the pavement’ what the fuck are you smoking….
     
  6. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    nations can choose to matter, by making themselves useful, to real, ordinary, physical, organic, every day human people. or they can choose to not matter, by refusing to.
     
  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    What I would suggest is a walk down to the local library, or find the download button on your keyboard:
    And get:
    Future Shock
    The Third Wave and
    Powershift: Knowledge, Wealth and Violence at the Edge of the 21st Century
    all by Alvin Toffler
    I haven't read Revolutionary Wealth yet.

    Here are some key points in relation to the dissolution of nation states:

    On education, learning, and knowledge:

     
  8. Fairlight

    Fairlight Banned

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    The Russians also did a hell of a lot to defeat Hitler,and paid a very high price for it,something that is not always remembered.This current bout of huffing and bluffing nationalism stinks.
     
  9. IamnotaMan

    IamnotaMan I am Thor. On sabba-tickle. Still available via us

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    I'd reply to your post, but it would be completely and utterly pointless. You're completely wrong on the facts. And your reasoning is utterly bizarre.
    Other than that... great post!

    <rollseyes in disbelief>
     
  10. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Poor little Britain.

    With it's food banks, bedroom tax and foreign invasion.

    Thing is, most of that is an inevitable outcome of globalization, and the reality of modern life. To imagine that we can somehow turn back the clock to the time of the British Empire is a pure fantasy. This has been one of the most brutal and oppressive countries in world history. Now the party is over.

    Meanwhile we get fucked over not by Europe, but by the dear old British establishment.
     
  11. IamnotaMan

    IamnotaMan I am Thor. On sabba-tickle. Still available via us

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    Comedy post again.

    How many people is it YOUR country has murdered again?
    Central America, nukes on Japan, Vietnam, Central America, Iraq and the Middle East. Etc etc.

    What were the lines? "Weapons of mass destruction". "Bombs for democracy". And the latest one "evil Putin's missile". Funny how America went quiet on that afterwards. Especially given that it put Neo Nazis in power in Kiev.

    PS Hitler was put in power, in no small part due to the American Establishment. IBM even supplied the tech to organise Hitler's death camps. Bush's grandfather was even charged with trading with Hitler.
    America joined WW2 SOLELY for its own benefit. After its Establishment delighted in watching Europe smashed to piece.


    And lets be honest, the only reason you hate Stalin is that his doctrine wanted prosperity for the many, around the World. Rather than 1% of 1% of the most corrupt in America.

    Yeah sure, we'll "appreciate" an American regime that has committed countless murders and invasions over the past 70 yrs or so. NOT.

    Infact America is actually based upon a genocide.
     
  12. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    iam



    LOL

    Oh of course you could replay, it’s not because you can’t or don’t have a clue about what you are talking about, no no, it’s just that you can’t be bothered, I understand.

    I mean I’m sure it’s not because answering is beyond your capacity or anything, I’m sure everyone here also understands that and your credibility hasn’t been effected at all.

    I’m sure the lack of knowledge you show about history and economics is just a ruse to put us at ease, it’s a kindness on your part not to overwhelm us with your brilliance.

    I suppose we should all be humble that you have condescended to talk to us.

    Now stop fucking around and fucking well address what's been said and stop acting like a prick.
     
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]Iam[/SIZE]



    I think criticism should be levelled where criticism is due, I often highlight history here to make a point about today not just as a slanging match. There are Americans that like to see the US as exceptional and not just another ‘imperial’ power with a shady past which has had little or no impact on how the world is today. And it is important to point out their mistake.

    BUT the point is that the same criticisms can be levelled at other imperial powers including the British one which has its own skeletons in its cupboards and I get the feeling that you don’t realise that.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Sleeping Caterpillar

    Sleeping Caterpillar Members

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    Would a one nation world scare any of you?
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Not sure what you mean – I don’t think a ‘one world nation’ is possible, or at least not in any foreseeable future.

    Do I wish for some forms of social world governance – hell yes - it’s needed to counter the already in place and running economic world governance that has invariably favoured the interests of wealth.

    Try reading – Age of Consent by George Monbiot
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Age-Consent-George-Monbiot/dp/0007150431

    http://www.monbiot.com/books/the-age-of-consent/

    "All over our planet, the rich get richer while the poor are overtaken by debt and disaster. The world is run not by its people but by a handful of unelected or underelected executives who make the decisions on which everyone else depends: concerning war, peace, debt, development and the balance of trade. Without democracy at the global level, the rest of us are left with no means of influencing these men but to shout abuse and hurl ourselves at the lines of police defending their gatherings and decisions. Does it have to be this way?"
     
  16. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    it would probably scare most of the ignorant herd, who don't seem to realize today's nations have already usurped and steam rolled over every indiginous soverignty within their borders.

    for myself, i don't believe government by remote control has ever been the best idea. but a world governing body with the teeth to keep nations from abusing local communities within them, more likely a good idea then not. of course that would depend on how it was done, how it was arranged to keep it from being any one perspective dictating to everyone else, the way international corporatocracy is now.
     
  17. NeilJovenUno

    NeilJovenUno Members

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    Those with the greatest ability to cut-back (i.e. the rich) should cut back the most.
     
  18. NeilJovenUno

    NeilJovenUno Members

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    I think that people are divided more by class than nationality. I also think than nations matter, and there should be greater national economic containment. The so called economic globalisation in the form of trade and investment liberalisation (but never to build up a strong welfare state), weakens the powers of democratically elected governments and places international competitiveness (usually a race to the bottom) at a higher priority to environmental sustainability and the welfare of those most vulnerable.
     

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