Do any of you actually live in Amsterdam?

typical dutch news report:

http://www.parool.nl/nieuws/2005/JUN/07/bin2.html

(be thankful if you can't read it!)

 

I guess its ok to put your location as "The Netherlands!"

I'm going to try that with "United States of America!!"

 

That dutch news article tells that Maroccans have a greater chance of getting schizophrenia because they have to live with two cultures.

 

why would this be typical? And are you planning on keeping the negativity about our country up?

It's not uncommon for certain cultures/races to have (psychological) problems that you don't see as much in others.. think of the hakikomori in Japan. That is something you don't see anywhere else in the world!

The reason that is given why things like schizofrenia are more present with moroccans is because they wait longer to go to see medical help for psychological problems, in contrast with other cultures. This way stuff is left untreated which makes it worse. A lot of people 'have' schizofrenia but unless it's triggered they aren't 'ill'. I'm not surprised that living under a lot of stress and feeling alienated might just be one of the triggers.

If that news article is anything, it's a critical view at Dutch society, which totally defeats your comment of us not being able to judge ourselfs.

You're constant attempt of putting this country down is getting pathetic. Get over it.

 

its typical becuase its in dutch

 

LOL.. hehehe.. heehee.. thanks for the laugh

 

the point to my posting that article is to point out one very simple and misunderstood fact. perhaps the morrocans do have a higher rate of mental illness, but the article reports it in such a way as to separate Dutch people from Morrocan people (even those born in holland). This is yet another example of the dutch media trying to say "look, here is another problem that morrocan people have, here is another reason why we have to get them out of our country. It's not bad enough that they're all criminals, now we have evidence that they're crazy also!".

If they do have higher rates of mental illness, then it's because of articles like this and because of they way they are constantly pointed out as being a problem and as not being a part of dutch society. Articles like this are not unlike the anti jewish propoganda planted by the nazis during the second world war.

Velvet, you really are a great example of the type of mentality that Im talking about. On first glance you appear to be quite intelligent and non judgemental, but say something which you percieve as negative about your country, then you get all right wing and lose your 'tolerence'. We both seem to agree that morrocans are alienated in dutch society. Where we disagree is that you appear to believe (and please correct me if Im wrong), that the morrocans are 99% to blame, while I believe that the dutch must take equal if not more blame for the alienation.

and please, please get over the 'our country' bullshit. this is a public forum and although you are accessing it from the netherlands, doesn't mean that the rules of dutch society (conform and tow the party line) also apply here. Whether you like it or not, I am entitled to voice my opinion about the netherlands and whether you believe it or not, Im postive that many people are glad to have read my posts.

If you could set aside your rage for a moment, then perhaps you'd see what my real motivation is here. I love the netherlands, I just don't like the place it's becoming. I believe that it's people like yourself who can chang things and steer the country back in the right direction, but first you must acknowledge that there is a problem and that the current mindset of the majority of dutch people is only making the problem worse.

 

Ehm.. did you read this?

 

OMG.. If you actually believe this you haven't understood a word she was saying.. Try reading it back without your prejudices..

 

Yes, but my point is more directed towards the cause of the problem.

Why is this the case? Why is it that these Moroccans have stopped evolving? Why have they become so problematic?

The answer is because there is no moroccan problem. It's a dutch problem and it always has been. The Dutch have an appaling record on race relations all over the world and this is no exception.

Let not forget that the Dutch invited these people in the first place.

Why I initially pointed this article out was to highlight a trend in the dutch society. There is a very stong "us" and "them" mentality which invades eveything. Velvet, you are guilty of this several times in this thread alone.
The point of this article and all others like it, is to separate Moroccans from Dutch. it's no longer acceptable to claim that they are achterlijk, so now they must find new ways to box them.

 

It's also interesting to note that so far no one has questioned this pseudo science. Doesn't anyone find this type of thing offensive? Everyone is so ready to believe this crap because it fits with their own predjudices.

This is like the articles from the 60's where so called 'scientists' would claim to be able to prove that white people are smarter than blacks.

 

he's still mad becuase they treat him like a morrocan and he's white. white people have a hard time when they are treated like common immigrants when they move to a new country.

 

actually there is some truth in that. it certainly opened my eyes to what is really going on there and how difficult it is to live and contribute to a society that refuses to acknowledge your equal worth as a person.

 

dude i know.


but i think that more importantly you need to find some cool people to hang with.

and accentuate the positive like so

shaggy: we're all gonna die!
velma: stay positive shaggy!
shaggy: we're all gonna die QUICKLY!

taken without permission from scooby doo 2.

 

jason, we know the problem you're talking about... don't think we haven't noticed ourselves.

You are absolutely right. The way a lot of Dutch people treat and think of 'the moroccans' is wrong and politics isn't doing shit about it, and they're only making it worse, just as the media. The article is offensive, but saying it's 'typically Dutch' is absolute bullshit. I don't understand why you should say that. There are people with different mentalities everywhere, and the mentality uttered in the article is also omnipresent, not only in Holland. In a certain way it's a natural reaction to 'strangers' (which, by the way, doesn't make it right in anyway, nature isnt always a good thing, you know (i.e. tsunami)) and it's not just a dutch thing.

I think you have really misunderstood Velvet, because I think you have pretty much the same views...

 

It's definitely a "typically Dutch" thing imo!

The misinterpretation of the Dutch replies around here are points well-proven that it's "typically Dutch".

You just got done stating how calling someone "stupid" is acceptable to the Dutch, right?!! I wonder how many Dutch people would agree?

 

I don't.

 

It's not acceptable to call someone stupid (stom/sukkel) in Dutch

 

It might not be a fact if it is or is not acceptable.. but as you can see above a few of your fellow country members (including me) do agree that we don't consider 'stupid' (dom, stom, sukkel) to be rude. So purely based on the representation of Dutch people in this forum, we could state for about half the of the people it's not considered rude to tell someone straight out that he/she made a dumb mistake

 

Well. Maroccans do marry alot in there own family. So that is also a reason why they maybe be a littlebit crazy.

The dutch have always tolerated alot. There must be a reason why they dont get along with Maroccans.