Do any of you actually live in Amsterdam?

That's my whole point (read the previous discussion).. he was pointing out how badly immigrated foreigners are in the Netherlands and I was just putting the ball back in his court by saying that there is a lot of racism in Australia as well

I'm on your side here hun..

 

By then it'll be too late. have you not read a word of my posts? I have been living in Holland, I may well be living there again next year. I am interested in the political and social climate of both countries.

My point is that Australia is not at the crisis point that holland is at. Please don't link to articles about australia and tell me to fix that first. you don't have any experience of what it's like to live in australia (have you even visited?).

Australia has it's problems also (athough they're not are dire as those faced by the netherlands). Australia is not in danger of losing it's culture, for it's culture is one of change and evolution. What it means to ne Australian isn't set in stone, it changes constantly.

Re: Dutch people in australia, i can't speak for them and i've not seen any statistics in regards to their voting habits etc.

 

again, my point is that we dont have that stubborn insistence on integration that is prevelant in holland. these people live in the community and contribute in their own way. if someone doesn't want to speak english in australia, then good luck to them. they are making things harder for themselves, but it's their choice and they shouldn't be targeted for it.

btw, you said earlier that you don't agree with verdonk, balkenende, wilders etc, but now you're offering up the same arguments that they offer up and arguing in support of their legislation.

 

Lets not turn this into Australia-bashing just because we dont like the Holland-bashing.

 

see, i knew you were intelligent.

there is a time and place for australia bashing also, but it's probably not on a forum about amsterdam.

 

No, she isnt. Verdonk is one disgusting person who hates people because of where they were born, she's not.

 

And Myrtje is one disgusting person who hates everybody with a different opinion than herself

 

Hahaha! Waarom gaan we trouwens niet verder in het Nederlands? Geen enkele "buitenlandse" hipforum bezoeker die zich hiervoor interesseert!

 

hee doe es niet zo kinderachtig.. zij draagt meer zinnigs bij dan ik jou in al die tijd heb zien doen.. myrtje onderbouwd tenminste haar mening.. doe jij dat ook maar es

 

Right wing and Left wing politicians often see the same problem, but offer different sollutions.. We recognise the same problem but think different about how to solve this problem.. I agree with some of the points wilders has, but the way he wants to solve this is just wrong..

 

mee eens.. Fedor als je mee wilt doen aan deze discussie, kom dan maar eens met goed argumenten aangezien je de enige bent met rechts gedachtengoed lijkt het me erg interessant.. so share!!

 

world traveller, post graduate studies, shit..... are you single too becuase you seem quite the catch.

 

who are you talking 'bout?

 

I think he was refering to jason:

 

ah thanks.. wasn't paying attention Post graduate.. kudos.. hey.. we're almost done with university as well.. get ready to boast and brag about all our knowledge!! Can't wait untill I'm older so I can use that as an argument as well

 

ooooh let me join, I'm 17 too

Listen, I didn0t really feel like reading EVERYTHING everybody has said about this, but I think I've got a picture of what has been said...

Jason, you've been a victim of a government that is uhm... not so good. I'm not saying I know what's going on exactly, nor do I have any solutions, but this is just the way it's going in Holland. The last few years our government has had to deal with a lot of people coming to our very small country. Now that's a difficult problem and our government hasn't been what it should be or should have been (I'm not saying I know everything about politics nor do I offer any solutions, I prefer to stay modest).

Of course... in a democratic country the government reflects the society and unfortunately Holland has become more right-wing than it used to be. I'm very sorry ou were treated like you said you were, but don't go and accuse the 'people of Holland', especially on a forum for (mostly) left-wing people. (I'm not saying all the right-wing people are 'doing this', but let's not argue about that, because I hate saying things like that after every point I make)

here's what I think is the problem: you exagerrated your opinion a little bit, instead of saying something like 'more and more people in Holland' you said 'Dutch people', making us the subject of your criticism. We feel pretty much the same way, in that you have been treated wrong, but we're more careful about how we put it. We are not part of the people that you describe and we say you're wrong, which you interpret as not being able to handle criticism.

We can handle it perfectly, we are critical about Holland, just be careful about how you put it and who you are accusing

I hope I have been of help solving this little misunderstanding.

 

Hear hear!

 

Jason I'm originaly from Michigan. The western half of this state is mostly Dutch. They have a saying "If you ani't Ducth you ani't much". Old way die hard I guess.

 

How come people always sound like assholes to me when defending their country, whatever country it is? I just tend to hate national pride I guess.

Anyway, I was wondering if things are similar in the Netherlands to other places where the big city (Amsterdam) is way different and far more tolerant than more rural surrounding areas.

To be fair to the original poster, i have heard other expats saying similar things about the area, while manyhave a very high opinion of the place. The founder of this site Skip seemed to complain about Amsterdam, but also seemed to like it as well.

 

you're right and it's because nationalism is ugly, ugly, ugly. i find it even more distasteful in the young. i expect a certain amount of it from the older generations, but when 20- somethings start with the national pride it really makes me want to puke.

Do Normaal!!!!!!!!!!Normen en Waarden!!!