DMT doses and pricing

dont tell me about paying for psycs, ive only been hooked up a few times with psychedelics(didnt have to pay) all the other times ive bought it myself and either made a friend pay for it, or just hooked them up, what ever the situation was. I DO understand the time and effort it takes to make DMT which is why i was paying $100/a gram when my buddie was only charging 80$. Because he made it himself and told me how long the process is and you dont master it with one Go. Takes a few runs to master the technique

 

Presumably because you were dealing with dealers at the bottom of the drug trafficking rung; those guys who’re so far disconnected from the chemists that selling drugs like dirt has few negative repercussions for them, as they didn’t invest much into this enterprise. It doesn’t hurt them as severely financially to use their drugs, give them away, or use them as an alternative to toilet paper even. They disbursed little money for what they have, whereas the chemist has presumably outlayed a sizable fortune to enable himself to create, operate, manage, functionalize, and conceal his laboratory as well as to manufacture enough product to cover all his expenses and to supply himself with the monetary incentive to continue doing it.

If your friend synthesized DMT and charged you $80/gram for it, I’d be hesitant to call that person a friend. In my neck of the woods, $3,000/kg is the going rate for DMT fresh out of the bakery. Let’s do a little arithmetic to clarify the extent to which you were cajoled, using the approximate common prices of wholesale DMT as a metric, shall we?

[FONT=&quot]$3,000/kg ÷ 10³ = $3/g -----[/FONT]>[FONT=&quot] ergo, you were charged approximately 96.25% more than you could have paid had your friend been as esurient for money as those cheapskate chemists of the type I know. D’oh![/FONT]

 

Dude, most people don't synthesize DMT. I'd wager a guess that at least a majority of the DMT that exists in pure form was extracted from one of the many natural sources for it and not synthesized from precursors. To synthesize it would be much much more expensive and difficult and the quality of the product wouldn't be significantly better than a good extraction. Seriously, anyone interested in producing DMT, especially a skilled chemist, is going to go with the cheapest, easiest, and most effective means of doing so, which is the extraction.

What pb's talking about is people he knows who have extracted DMT themselves, which pretty much anyone with some common sense and patience can do, and who then sold it. It's not like he's friends with the chemist producing kg's of DMT and paying him 100/g for it.

The point your trying to make doesn't really apply to DMT because it doesn't take a high tech lab to make it. Anyone can extract DMT and it need not be an extremely risky or expensive process. This is why people say that it shouldn't be sold, that the experience is too sacred to be sold, that to earn the experience you must do the work to extract it yourself. I don't subscribe to this particular belief, and I have bought DMT before, but I do see the point, and I think that your criticisms are misplaced.

It's not a matter of all DMT sales being evil, it's simply that to make DMT with only the goal of making money in mind and nothing else is wrong. It's something that transcends everything we know. It's more valuable than any amount of money so to trade in DMT with money seems disrespectful.

 

You're absolutely correct, eatlysergicacid. But what about the wholesaler? It would be an excruciatingly dilatory and unnecessarily laborious procedure to extract, say, more than 7 ounces of DMT via any of the extraction teks out there. And this isn't to deride the extraction teks themselves; I'm simply acknowledging the fact that they were all designed with simplicity and personal use in mind.



The MHRB ---> DMT process is designated and carried out predominantly by consumers of the drug or small-time dealers of the drug. The guy who has the expertise to synthesize DMT and the intention to distribute it is the same guy you'd find sequestered in a lab somewhere supplying half a city with more of the compound than the people know what to do with. The same is applicable for all the mescaline cooks, and (my hat goes off to these fellows) the psilocybin cooks.

You'd be better off abandoning such a grave misapprehension as one such as the thought that extraction teks are sufficient for everyone's intentions, when you haven't a clue what everyone's intentions really are.

In light of that, I wonder why pb would make such assured remarks on something he/she has no experience with. The prices of Joe Blow's DMT that he extracted from some plant shouldn't be utilized to gauge what price Mr. Grad Student should sell his synthesized DMT for. A commodity is only as valuable as A) its consumers' demand, B) its ease of acquisition/production and the ease of its precursors' acquisition/production, and, in the underground economy, C) its illegality.

Factor B applies scantly to DMT extractors, and yet is the most crucial variable in price determination within wholesale clandestine chemistry. Thus, chemicals made with arduous syntheses and highly watched precursors will always be more costly than the same chemicals effortlessly extracted using OTC, readily available, and dirt cheap chemicals.

There seems to be some lexical confusion on your part. So, with an analogy, hopefully I can clarify things for you a little.

Let A be an object and B an object within A such that A is a container of all of B. Let Y have the potential to, insofar as it contacts A, extricate B from within the confines of A and thus allow B to exist alone rather than coexist within A. Now, can it be argued therefrom that Y made B or that it merely released the already existent B from A? If the latter, what then has been made? Nothing.

A = DMT-containing source
B = DMT
Y = a process

My point? One can't be said to have made anything by an extraction.
If Y + A = B, B has been made. If B [FONT=&quot]∊ [/FONT]A + Y = B, B has been extracted.
The former formula, as it pertains to the synthesis of DMT, does indeed require "a high tech lab".

Those "misplaced criticisms" could be more aptly described as (thus far vain) attempts at clarifying the intricacies of the DMT market by way of dispelling false assumptions and pointing out flaws in these cocksure claims educed by people who haven't any idea of what they're talking about and lack the experience to even engage in this conversation.

I daresay food is more important than tripping. Yet, to my amazement, almost all food in Western society is set at a price. Housing, too, a necessity more vital than tripping, comes with an almost prohibitively costly price tag. The only thing that you don't pay for now (knock on wood) is the air you breathe.

Everyone wants nice things. Everyone wants to enjoy their lives free of stress. Everyone wants to actualize their dreams and reach their full potential(s). This all comes with a price, and sometimes that price is too exorbitant to afford with a by-the-book lifestyle alone.

Blank is doing what he excels at in order to get an education and legitimize his life. Methamphetamine, PCP, crack cocaine, etc., are the only other options Blank has at his disposal to make a living. Would you rather Blank to start peddling meth to schoolkids (who surely won't be so damn petulant and persnickety over prices) or sell DMT for what you think is $3 too much?

 

I'd like to start by proposing the idea that in the opinion of those who frown upon the sale of DMT, the wholesaler is the worst offender, and the one who is chiefly in it for the money. This obviously varies depending on the person doing it, but if a person is supplying a city with DMT then he's not in it to share the magic of DMT with his close friends, he's a drug dealer. Again, this is not my personal opinion, but I do understand where people who feel this way are coming from.

Again, for the purposes of the point which I'm trying to defend, the guy who needs to go through the difficult and dangerous process of synthesizing massive amounts of DMT in order to sell it for profit is the bad guy.

The reason why pb would make such assured remarks is because most people who buy DMT are probably buying it from a low level dealer who either extracted it themselves or bought some from someone who did. Most people aren't getting lab grade DMT directly from the chemist, so yes $100 is generally the going retail price for small dealers. It varies wildly obviously, but I've seen many people pay more and less. 100 seems to be a rough average.

Ok bro, that was an insanely complicated analogy used to illustrate a ridiculously simple point. I recognize that an extraction of DMT is not the same thing as making DMT. To use the term make loosely, however, yes, a person who extracts DMT "makes" it. Obviously that's not literally correct, but I do think you can understand the idea. Usable DMT powder can be made without high grade lab equipment.

This is the problem I have. I don't think the people who disagree with the sale of DMT are in any way wrong for holding that opinion. It's much more a matter of how sacred it is to a person. To those who have experienced very real spiritual and emotional change from DMT and who regard it as a spiritual sacrament it seems disrespectful to trade in it for profit. I don't think DMT should be forbidden to sell or anything(lol) but I do think that the person selling it should do so only with the intention of sharing something amazing with others and not the intention of making money.

I recognize that some chemists no doubt are in it for that reason, but I do think that when operating on such a large scale, money become the most important factor in the whole thing.

You act like DMT is the same thing as food, or nice things, or meth. DMT is something extremely special. You're talking about it like it's a commodity. This is exactly why I think people discourage the sale of it, because a person's religious sacrament is not meant to be a commodity. Food and nice things are things to be purchased with money because they are commidities. Eating a bite of food or even smoking meth doesn't cause your ego to disintegrate and your mind to rocket at lightspeed through all of time and space experiencing everything that ever was and ever will be in every universe imaginable.


In conclusion, bravo to the idealistic DMT chemist who supplies whole cities but who does it to help people have the magic of it and who isn't corrupted by money, but also bravo to anyone who goes through the work to extract some, however meager the amount, and who shares it with close friends, even if he charges them, as long as everyone involved is in it to have an incredible experience and to share it with others. That's what it's all about.

I'm not trying to argue against you Ergative, you obviously know what you're talking about. I understand the point you're making, but I also understand the point that you seemed to belittle, and I don't think that was deserved. While I don't hold that particular view I do see why people would, and it's an absolutely valid point. This stuff induces an experience which I can only understand as something greater than this world, so I have utter respect for it. If a person is offended by others turning their sacrament into a commodity, I think that's perfectly understandable.

I'm somewhere on the fence about this whole thing. I do hold DMT to be a very important spiritual drug, but I don't have the ability or supplies to extract it myself, so since I'm in demand of it, I must then be the consumer. So if I could find a source for good DMT I would pay for it. I have before. I don't think any drug dealing is particularly wrong, and I'm in support of free trade of most things, so I really can't say what my personal opinion on the matter is. I can be satisfied knowing that both sides have been represented.

 

wow that is way to much reading i think Ergative is looking into this to much. sit down, load up your machine, blast off, and be one with the universe PEACE!

 

LOL, you couldn't be any more correct than that, pbjube3. Verbosity and the need to write unnecessarily pedantic expositions on practically anything seems to have been something I haven't been able to shake from the other online communities I've been a member of that require such writing and prolix polemics. :scholar:

I'll take your advice; perhaps a joint or three can straighten me out. :smoking:

 

eatlysergicacid,

I was just speaking from an experiential perspective. If you're up to it, we could always continue the discussion in an amicable manner via PMs. Surely, however, it would be rude to derail this thread with our conversation or to take up 1/3 of the screen with each of our posts.

 

Indeed. :sunny:

I think I've said enough considering I was mostly speculating about why other people feel a certain way. I don't even know where I stand on the issue. Suffice it to say that I love DMT, and I can't wait to encounter it again no matter where it comes from.

 

sometimes i'd rather give my friend a hit or two of LSD for free, just so they don't have to ask themselves "was that trip worth $x?"

 

Um, if you have to ask yourself if an LSD trip is worth 5-20$, you are doing something wrong. The answer seems to be a resounding yes. What else does 5-20$ get you in this world? If this is an actual anxiety that you are experiencing when offering psychedelics to your friends, I am afraid you are failing your friends in terms of explaining to them just what is going on here, or your friends are somehow daft and are sitting around having a 12 hour long cosmic disintegration of ego completely with unimaginable aesthetic wonders and thinking to themselves "Man, I could have bought like THREE CHEESEBURGERS for this money, this sucks!"

DMT is absolutely a commodity. It is a physical powder, extracted from a plant, which satisfies people's needs to be propelled through time and space at light speed to have a religious experience.

Can you tell me, if DMT is not a commodity, then is 4-aco-dmt also not a commodity? What about DPT? What about psilocybin mushrooms, they contain DMT based psychedelics that cause religious experiences, should a mushroom grower not charge for the mushrooms he cultivates? Where do you draw the line? Should art galleries not charge admission ever because their paintings and statues can induce religious experiences? Why is DMT so special? I have done somewhere around 20-30 different psychedelics, including DMT, and I can tell you that it is NOT special to me, and it doesn't even make it into my top 3, and probably not even my top 5. To me it is one of many tryptamines, one of many INCREDIBLE tryptamines that can induce wonderful psychedelic experiences, and it takes resources to make, so it SHOULD, and it does, cost resources to consume.

Again, this sounds suspiciously like "Well DMT is MY favorite psychedelic that I hold on a pedestal, so therefore don't charge me". LSD is my favorite psychedelic, but I would never go around just assuming that because it means so much to me and because it has changed my life that I should be given it for free. It's backwards logic. You don't pay less for something that is more meaningful, you are happy to pay a pittance, and you are happy that this experience is not costing you 100$/hit, which is something that I would STILL pay, because again, what on EARTH are we talking about here, cheeseburgers???

 

I'm not trying to say that I don't think DMT should be bought or sold, I'm simply representing an argument that was brought up which I've heard the reasoning behind and feel comfortable relaying it for the purpose of discussion.


Edit: I really want some DMT. I would overpay out the ass for it.

Second edit: [Again, not my personal view] perhaps if we look at DMT as the active ingredient in the Ayahuasca brews used in shamanic rituals, and not as the powder we smoke, then we can see more clearly why someone might be offended to know that people are trading in kilograms of their sacred experience. Imagine what the shaman who prepares the brew and aides his patient through their experience would think about this experience being a commodity to us.

^^^Speculation^^^

 

It is a commodity to the shaman as well It may be a divine commodity, it may have supernatural powers, but it is a brew that he has to wake up, go out in the jungle, gather plants, work for hours over a hot pot for. He works hard to create this mixture, and his job in his society is the preperation of the ayahuasca and the guiding of people through the experience. This is still the behaviors of a commodity! Think of it this way, if the shaman suddenly woke up one morning and completely forgot how to make ayahuasca, which plants it comes from, he would suddenly not be a powerful shaman in his society anymore. Because of plant matter. Plant matter for food and shelter, or powder for cash, it is the same transaction.

He would likely be upset at the reasons for taking ayahuasca and the settings it is done in sometimes, but I don't think he would be troubled that people trade things for things.

 

I think the thing that would bother the shaman would be the way it's traded. Just by handing over a piece of paper we can hypothetically obtain more than one shaman could extract in a lifetime. The amounts dealt in are so much greater than the amounts the shaman works with even in a large brew. I just think it would be a shocking revelation.

It's tough to continue to speculate past a certain point. Basically my point is that I can easily understand how DMT could be sacred to some people, and why they might be offended to see it traded like any other old drug.

 

that's not quite what i meant, at all. it's not an actual anxiety i experience.

just in general, when it comes to drugs and money, people often bicker over "getting their money's worth." so especially for someone's first LSD trip (which is my favorite psychedelic as well), i like to give them a hit or two for free, instead of 5 to $20, so that they can just be focused on the trip, and forget about the money.

with something so special as LSD, i would rather sometimes treat it as a gift, rather than a commodity.

this is not something i do often, either, as i don't have a plethora of LSD.

yes, an LSD trip is certainly worth 5 or $20 to me. and it is worth minus 5 or 20 dollars to share it with a close friend. all that said...sometimes i'll take 10 bucks

now i've gotten us way off topic..

 

Well the shaman would also be shocked at how easily we can acquire food, light, heat, what modern gaming systems look like, particle accelerators, telescopes, medicine, etc. That is a technological shock, nothing to do with DMT inherently. I think the shaman would be more shocked that there ARE dozens of other things like DMT rather than how easily it is traded.

Again, if you have to take away his worry about money (~10$) when he's experiencing his first psychedelic, I'm worried that this individual is not ready for the experience in the least, or at the very least, has some scrooge-like behavior going on. "Oh you poor thing, you might have to pay 10$ for your first psychedelic experience, well I wouldn't want to ruin it for you because of that" still does not compute. If the 10$ is really that big of a deal for this person, maybe that's a sign that they aren't in a place in life where they should be messing with drugs.

 

i guess you're right, writer. but i feel like you are missing my point.

i've just thought it to be a nice thing when introducing my loved ones to LSD, to do it for free. as a gift. i'm sure my brother would have given me $5 for his first half hit of LSD and not worried about it.
i'm sure my brother would give me 7 or 14 bucks for some LSD this coming weekend. but since he's in college and has about $2,000 to his name...i think i can just give it to him.

i'm not trying to say that everyone should just give LSD away though. it's not free, and i don't give away much

 

Dude, when I was coming up we'd get a sheet of windowpane gelatin tabs about the size of a tadpole whipped up with around 250 mcg L and get those sheets for around 50 cents to a dollar a hit. Buying individual hits was typically three to five dollars per, not this ten dollars for an 80 mcg hit. Yeah, yeah, I'm old and getting grey; but I have a similar ethic to you... perhaps even more generous when I can be so long as I'm not nickled and dimed (which has happened, big surprise). Psychedelics should be free to psychedelic people. I don't pay for weed or shrooms, I barely pay for mescaline or DMT.
You're a good soul, I can't imagine that you have to pay for a good deal of what you drop or smoke/vape. Yeah? How about you Writer? BTW, howdy fellahs! :mickey:

 

To any scroungers and mendicants here, here's a challenge (hopefully you'll have the temerity to even attempt it):

1)spend years of your life learning organic chemistry

2)search almost incessantly for an adequate place to setup a lab

3)spend thousands of your hard earned dollars furnishing that lab with suspicious equipment, like a hydrogenator, that could get your door kicked in by the DEA and risk those thousands of dollars having been spent in vain as your shit gets confiscated

4)get all the requisite chemicals compiled whilst running the same risk of having your door kicked in by the feds, but this time with an added bonus of prison. But you could always purchase precursors for the precursors to make them with. But even then, those are sometimes watched which causes the entire process to become befuddling, exceeding convoluted, and drastically extraneous where precursors are needed to synth precursors which are needed to synth yet more precursors, etc.

5)slave in a lab for sometimes days on end and with the risk of screwing up and scarring yourself for life or, worse yet, killing yourself painfully.

6) finally, make the drug of your choice, and then..........GIVE IT ALL AWAY! DON'T BE STINGY! ALL OF IT!

Now what did you gain? You couldn't possibly be that haughty and ignorant to think that you've actually enlightened people, could you? Hallucinogens don't do anything in the way of enlightenment with the way Westerners, and especially those New Age pseudo-shamanic dolts, use the drugs. I advise anyone who wants drugs, has the money, but just doesn't want to pay to steer clear of synthetic drugs. Nature can provide you with all the hallucinogens you'd ever need. But if she's not good enough, either pay the price or make your own drugs and fail so that I can have something to laugh at, at least.

 

Did someone suggest that that would be a good idea? Even if you cut out the give it away part it sounds pretty unpleasant.