Disassemble the US government.

every nation has its rise and fall..we got ours coming to us its just a matter of time..

 

Okay from my personal life experiences most states seem to over step federal regulations.


Ohio was told by the federal goverment to raise its truck (commercial) speed limits from 55MPH to 65MPH or face loosing federal funding for its interstates. Ohio's reply was that was fine they would just make it up fines on trucks.

California, Arnold swore he would raise the truck speed limit in the desert from 55MPH to 65MPH, he never did due to internal pressure becuase again it would cause loss of revenue.

Every state has a different bridge law for hauling loads for trucks, there is no uniformity at all. So you could be legal picking up a load in Missouri but be illegal in California.

First problem I see with an all out loss of federal control is the states loss of federal funds to maintain interstates and that is actually not being done very well as it is.

As for California well the state of Washington has forced its people to pay the tab for California failing to pay thier light bill and the feds forced Washington to keep sending power anyway. So Snohomish County P.U.D. rates went up 100% in 1 year, over the span of 5 years they went up over 300% just so the goverment of California could not pay the light bill. You know if your idea came into play your state would be cut off and have to seek a fast replacement.

Truck drivers already are like NY refusing to go to your state, if it was even more deregulated i would dare say you would be cut off completely for fear of the fines the CHP would dream up to support its new country.

Lets face it, greed is in man not the country, men live in all states and the greed would always over ride the peoples needs and wants. You can micro goverment as much as one wants but there will always be the greed of the few that seems to rule over the rest.

I could not help but see a future of each state laying traps for out of state plates, forcing fines be paid before you leave of cars being siezed for payment (hmm sounds like Mississippi) ect. It will be 1960's in the south all over again.

 

That makes some sense but you can't affect change if you don't take action by at least voting absentee.

 

as if there are no insane warmongers in europe? there are bush supporters in europe believe it or not.

did you know you can be thrown in jail for denying the holocaust in germany? I know it is ignorant to do so, but why can't people be free to do so if they want to. Off topic, but at some point freedom is restricted everywhere.

and millions were against the war here too. But media focused on the supporters. there were and are many protests!

How do you know if you were gone for a lot of that time? I can't claim to know what happened in Madrid for instance, because I was not there. You saw things on TV, of supporters, but trust me, there were lots of people who disapproved of the war. And recently. washington DC. remember that?

and that is still the case. A lot of Europeans realize this. Most people do not support the war here, check the presidents approval ratings, ect.

yes but Kerry won the elections by 500,000. so, the people knew who NOT to vote for. don't blame the people.

Than again, many european nations have difficulty with elections themselves. here of La pen? That was a near DIASTER and people were fooled by him like some were fooled by Bush. Everyone I talked to in France said he was dangerous. norway is still a constitutional monarchy. iceland has not seperated church and state. Its not just america who has problems...and by the way, France is in danger again. again, I have friends (and a gf) who live there who are very worried about the two top presidental canidates. but what are they to do? Media only hypes two people over there, just like here. and people fall for it there. They are doing the same thing in France (two choices) as we do as the world tends to do.

Well actually a lot of Europeans can seperate government from its people. It's people elected Kerry by 500,000 votes. A lot of my friends from europe who have been here LOVE the people and scenry and culture, but do not like Bush. Than again, when I went to Europe I did find Bush supporters, believe it or not.

I also found people who said "I hate bush." Of course! I asked why they did. Granted I dislike him, but I wanted them to provide reasons. Sometimes I would get the "because he can't speak" or something trivial like that but no real basis. Yes I hate him, but others should be able to back it up. In other words, it is kind of the trendy thing to do, to hate bush. But some people had no clue why they hated him!

generalizations abound here eh? Well every nation has its fools buddy. In no way am I sticking up for America's fools. But there are fools all over. How can you call a whole entire nation fools? I would never do that!

America may have its problems. But we are still the example in many ways of what it is to be a country. our culture and history is not as rich, and in that way we are not the example. we are a young country though! In many ways, especially with social issues, europe is the model of a great country to live in. I love Europe. I love france so much! More than the USA in fact. But I also like my own country. America is not that bad, not that great, But i am willing to fight (peacefully for change! I like Europe and want to live there with my gf (France), but I am not about to act like europe is high and mighty and soooo much better. they have thier own problems for sure.

 

I live in Canada and i am still against what Bush is doing! Why can't they just stop fighting? It's our men and women over there too! Is it too much to ask for peace in the world? Speaking of which i saw this shirt, http://www.echelonshift.com/polo-golf-sport-shirt/119/banner-peace-pax-cultura.htm and that doesn't look like any peace symbol i ever saw. What do you think?
Peace out
LS

 

If the US is dissolved then it becomes weaker. If it is weaker, I am not sure that really helps the world. This just opens the door for some other evil to take over.

With the way we're going. the environment will do us in. The polar ice caps will dissolve everything, we don't have to try real hard. Our momentum towards our own destruction is too great to be able to make that much of a difference now.

 

Greetings Skip, the essence of humanness in me, has seen, and honors that same essence in you, my hope my brother is that indeed one day we might be fully free to will as we would if it was truly our I's that willed.

There is another thing that may be similar in our respective manifestations, of groups of the real rulers of the species; it seems that we both have an abundance of idealism. Idealism is a laudable characteristic, I would nearly be willing to assert, that it may be strongly linked with honor, having not performed, as yet, the appropriate investigations however; it is only my informed, considered opinion. I've said much of this, in order to establish that, in absolutely no way, should what I wish to communicate concerning your championing of this issue, be considered a personal attack, nor derogatory.

There is an old piece of wisdom that I would strongly assert, ( with the authority of considerable rigorous investigations) is accurate, i.e., "Our greatest strengths are as well our greatest weaknesses. I have found in myself,(actually it was pointed out to me), that when proposing, or acting on any notion that has anything to do with any of my, so called< ideals, it brings with it a much higher propensity to be subjective, and I know I've gone over the top a few times and replies tended to be argumenitive, or to be tangental to the point I'd intended to make.

Allrightee then, that said, I would ask you to consider a few points that seem to disfavor this course of action.
I. Them
A. The fools who became their tools, the capitalists, I don't think they will stand idly by and watch their raping of the economy and peoples earnings, be brought to an end, or for that matter even decreased. Ever met a capitalistic aristorcrat Skip????All of the power with not even the slightest shred nobility. Self serving, materialistic, capitalistic, aristocrats, misbegotten issues of pernicious fornications, born of the love of money, they are born the very essence of evil.
[rant check] opps pardon please, I'm just a wee bit excitable at times.
These, who consider themselves modern "landed gentry" in my epxperience, to the person, are extremely petty , and viciously vindictive. Since "capitalism" would still be the basis of our economic system, they would retain much power, and we would be facing a large possibility of a fuedal system. At the very least it would be but a few short steps until the majority of people would find themselves in indentured servitude. "16 tons and what do you get/ Another day older and deeper in debt." "I owe my soul to the company store." A perception of life in America, written by Merle Travis, not long after World War II, marked the heighth America reached in the cyclic pattern of the Rise and Fall of Empire.
B The Politico's
C. The God Fearing

Sorry Skip ran out of time, it seems to me I recall that when I first became aware of this site, and looked to see who had birthed it, I read something of yours you mentioned the word "meme" in. Are you familiar with socio-biology theory? Another aspect of this I look forward to discussing as I've nevr enumerated the reasons why, it seems to me it is a nonworkable solution, is a pure democracy. I know that practically, today, in this country, it would be a disaster.
Overall I am of the opinion that the inertia of decline is, at this point irreversable and that rather than patch the holed hull of the Titanic of America we need to be finding a life boat, and that not just from the fall of America but what I am most grieved to conclude is the coming fall of civilization.
Exponetial growth in a finite system is nonviable, it fails consistantly and almost exclusively, catastrophically.
BTW this is one of the reasons I came here, this message falls on mute, oft times hostile ears elsewhere, when I found this site, I believed I had found a reason to hope, that one of the most amazing phenomenon in the known universe, i.e. individual manifestations of that universe, who had become aware of their independant identities, would not perish from the universe but, one day realize the "ideal"of human beings, being fully human. This, even to a non-theist is mortal sin. (well at least to this non-theist)
Peace, amd fulfillment my brother, Namaste
sine cera

 

You should have added ... "... and every day would be gorgeous with little clouds that move together and spell out your name in the sky, and public transport will be free, and instead of taxation all the rich people will give us all their money and elvis will be found alive and living in oklahoma" It just aint gonna happen even if all the other things you advocate do happen.

No you would have 50 leaders in 50 different countries telling people what to do

actually the bush family has had a huge say in what the USA's government does, for the last 60 years and it has been run like a corporation since at least the time of kennedy

but isnt that the major factor in why you have a federal govt? part the reason being they saw how Europe was always at war with itself and for the sake of peace on their continent the usa federalised - it is after all what the Europeans are now doing in emulation

Did you get stoned before you wrote that thread?
If I didnt know any different I would say a hippy started this thread - while they were getting stoned.

"Tom, hand me ma rifle ! ...."

"what are them assholes doing on my porch, son"
"duhuh! Duhuh ! ha! them aint called assholes mama - them are azelias"

 

I'm listening...

 

Thank you Sentient, got me back on track, because that is really my point, but from a different level of observation, i.e. of what influence/motivation sphere these 50 various leaders might be from.
The three most dangerous are composed of the capitalists (money mongers), politicos(power brokers), and ZOOBS(zealots Of Own Belief Sets(biggots, and prophets))

The first I've already spoken of, the second Joseph Stalin, and Edi Amin are examples of succesful power brokers Remember George Wallace, can you imagine Alabama if he'd been unrestrained by a federal gov't. Money grubbers and power brokers are damned dangerous, but they don't hold a match to the types of horrors that can be brought about by ZOOBS, examples of these would be "The Moral Majority, and Neo-Nazi groups like "The National Alliance"

I think Skip that the only course that I see, that allows for resolving the problems, both domestic and foreign that arose as a result of The Shrubs' Amerika, taking the place of the United States, is if he, and his puppet master Cheny are convicted of treason, sentenced here, given over to the world court for war crimes, his cabinet members stripped of all power, charged with treason, their assets seized by the treasury, and that the United States be reenstated with all legislation, and appointee's during his reign declared null and void.
Ya know, that just might do it, hmm I wonder if we could get socialized health care at the same time.

I still think yours is a nice idea, but it relies on people behaving like humans rather than modified naked apes, unfortunately most of the population of this country refuse to acknowledge a "natural" origin of humankind, or are in denial of it's implications. It is a logical necessity that if one refuses to acknowledge a things existance, one can not effect change on that thing. There is a reason that universal peace, love, and the familial kinship of all humankind are refered to as "enlightened", it is because deep, down in the dark foundations of the "natural" human, each individual is ruthlessly selfish* It is the nature of "gene machines."

Think life boat, in the form of something like Asimov's Galactic Encyclopdia Foundation, a completely self sufficiant and defensable community well away from any population centers. It seems to me that these would be the "Rainbow Warriors" this savagely abused planet will be in need of. I've found that notion to be the only one illumed by the flame of hope. Consider it Skip, from what I see, you could be an initiator of just such a foundation.
Peace and fulfillment brother
sine cera
The Veteran Cosmic Rocker

* I urge anyone who is unaware of the argument that supports this assertion to read "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins, the man is an excellent communicator.

What the hell is this??? In the first place, have you such little confidence in your argument that you resort to attempting to cast aspersions on the mental state of someone you disagree with.
Second I urge you to drop your establishment oriented attitude concerning altered states of consciousness. Granted many people do abuse psychotropic drugs however there is a difference between "stoned stupid" and opening the "doors of perception"
The Doors of Perception is a 1954 book by Aldous Huxley detailing his experiences when taking mescaline. This short book is considered to be one of the more profound studies of the effects of mind-expanding drugs and what they teach about how the mind works.

The title comes from William Blake's The Marriage of Heaven and Hell:

"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through' narrow chinks of his cavern."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doors_of_Perception

 

We need to unite as an American people, ONE people, and take our country back. Anything less, or complete inaction, is and should be unacceptable to any American that values their freedoms, rights, and liberties.

Follow in our great ancestor footsteps and oust the oppressors. It is not just our RIGHT, it IS OUR DUTY. If we fail to succeed by due process, force may be necessary, per our own US Constitution.

We have to get back to basics and instate a government of leadership and lawmakers who WORK FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, and ACCURATELY REPRESENT THE PEOPLE. NO MORE EXORBITANT SALARIES for our self-preserving government!! They shall make no less than an average or median American salary.

Period. We must revisit our own history and follow in our successful ancestors footsteps to secure and defend our inherent Constitutional rights, freedoms, and liberties.

Inaction is unacceptable. Inactive people, shall and cannot complain. This is the time for the PEOPLE to unite as ONE American people, by putting our individual differences aside, for the COMMON GOOD of our People.

Federal government, leaders, lawmakers should be the LAST to be paid with OUR money. We MUST and SHOULD support our own people before anything else - oppressive government OR foreign nations. If we DO NOT support our own people, why and how should we support others?

I don't believe our Forefathers and American ancestors would accept anything less than protecting our freedoms and rights. FIRE THEM! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

ORGANIZE, UNITE, AND TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY!!

PS I would LOVE to work somewhere where I can authorize my own raises and promotions. Does anyone know of a workplace like this?? Oh... yes, the federal government! Of course that makes sense.

WAKE UP AMERICA! IT IS OUR TIME, THE PEOPLE'S TIME!

 

i don't think govt is a good center for a people , and
neither is a national flag , and neither is a priest king ,
and neither is money and war .

i feel the drum is goodness at the center .

anyway , i wouldn't protest govt by gathering at
the capital on october 6 .

 

Right on tikoo, I'm a zeitgeist supporter myself. Aloha and coconuts

 

the will of the people is mystical . only a consensus democracy
can respect it as Oneness . consensus is a relational oneness .

majority rule is crude . it's respect for
the will of the people is false .

 

While disassembling the US gov. will have many benefits, We need to be careful not to see it as Our goal, but as a step to Our greater goal - disassembling all governments everywhere, local or otherwise. I do believe this would happen more easily and quickly without the intimidating US gov. looming over all of us.

 

Disassemble the US government, and watch exactly the same system pop up under a different name.

 

Yes, and watch Us oust them once more. If We can do it once, why not twice!