Disapointed with LSD

If an organism lacks the biological capabilities to even experience psilocybin as a hallucinogenic/psychotropic chemical, I think it's pretty safe to say that the chemical was not developed as a defense mechanism intended to ward off that creature. But just because a defense mechanism doesn't work on a specific organism doesn't mean it isn't a defense mechanism at all. The porcupine did not develop it's quills so that it may fend off fleas.

 

Very few large animals purposely eat psychedelics. Just because reindeer seem to have developed an appetite for mushrooms, or for other drugs, elephants seem to love alcohol, doesn't mean it's the norm. Saying it's not a defense mechanism is freakin asinine. Can you imagine taking mushrooms if you didn't have a logic mind? Our ancestors when we lived in trees stayed the fuck away from them.

 

I did it for the first time on new year's eve. Hated it. Never trying it again.

My husband loved it and did it again twice.

 

And to be perfectly honest, most people still do.

 

The fact is we do not know the precise function of the psychedelic chemicals in the life cycle of the mushroom. Many species produce chemicals that increase their survival specifically by making themselves more palatable. From this perspective you could say that any chemical that promotes survival to be defensive in nature.
Psychedelic mushrooms would not have been readily available to tree dwelling ancestors.
Psycho active mushrooms are primary and secondary digesters of lignin.

 

Why wouldn't they be available, I use tree dwellers loosely, ancient varieties of the homo genus were walking around the ground before they had a logical mind. The fact is there is no beneficial quality in most cases including these for plants to do something that leads to their destruction.

 

Because I was using tree dwellers specifically. Many spores survive digestion and as a matter of fact, disperse themselves by being eaten. Many types of aquatic animals die from the act of spawning. Many plants are annuals which die after producing seed.
Further what do you mean by logical mind. Many animals engage in computational thinking.

 

that is a good point. an apple tree doesn't die when a deer eats the apple. a weed plant doesn't have to die if you pick the bud. and the mushroom spores most likely don't die when they are digested. that means when the animal that ate them shits them out, they have a nice pile of nutrients to grow on. same for the pot or apple seed.

so it's a valid hypothesis that the chemicals in weed and mushrooms are defense mechanisms. i realize now that my comparison to apples was not really 100% logical, since apples don't have any chemical defense.

but maybe pot and shrooms "want" to be eaten, so it's seed can get spread just like an apple.

i think it's more likely that it just appears that way b/c we have cultivated them. to the dude that was talking about humans and plant relations, they are only like that because of us. we have intervened and made potatoes, corn, strawberries, and weed into the giants that they are. they didn't really evolve to attract us for their benefit.

 

Vs how many animals that purposely go off and do drugs? Even more intelligent animals like dogs don't like being high unless they were conditioned to it from an early age.

 

Regardless we all continue to evolve together. We see all kinds of plants and animals adapting to the cosmopolitan arrangements of human beings. In particular as far as the mushrooms in question, many have greatly expanded their range by virtue of human intervention. Advantage is taken wherever it may be found.

 

Inducing "high", is natures way of encouraging beneficial behaviors, for instance the function of the appetite. We eat and this causes the release of pleasure chemicals that tell us eating is good. It is not a matter of intelligent choice, but the choice for comfort. There is room for much variety in individual predilection.

 

i do think weed and shrooms have defense mechanisms but of course manipulated by humans to better recreational use of them. When ingesting them, i think they were originally meant to alter your state to disarm you. i would think that's why thc has naturally developed, but it's just a weaker defense mechanism than psilocybin. i think the chemicals can be good and bad depending on whatever is using it. if we were all born schezophrenics, psychedlics would probably be valued more maybe. overall its all just an aspect of an ever-growing ecosystem

 

Right, but the discussion is obviously about highs resulting from external substances.
Feeling good because you have a full belly or because you just had sex is an internal function that is specifically designed to, as you say, encourage beneficial behaviors. Nothing is required other than the action itself. This is not similar to destroying and consuming a foreign organism to achieve the same results. It could even be said that approach is harmful, because you are manipulating your body and neurotransmitters by replacing the "feel-good" reactions that they were originally intended for (making you feel good about beneficial biological behaviors), with the digestion of an external substance that arguably has no benefits other than the temporary satisfaction of a pleasurable sensation.

 

That's what they say. But what seems weird to me is I really don't see a deer or some like animal having the mental compacity to think "Wow, those mushrooms I ate 45 minutes ago are the reason I feel so fucked up right now"

 

It's all a matter of repetition.
First of all, I'm not sure what effect psilocybin would have upon deer, but if it is unfavorable, you can be sure that after enough times eating those mushrooms they will learn to avoid them.
My dog used to eat toads, and they would make him sick. He doesn't do it anymore.

 

We can make all kinds of arbitrary distinctions. Do you feel that your ingestion of psychedelic substances represents no more functionality than a pleasurable experience?

 

Arbitrary? You were trying to spin the discussion in your favor by relating the ingestion of external substances to interior, evolved reactions to basic biological instincts.

What other functionality is there? lol

 

What you say is true for all substances, not just "external" substances.
We are all, a chemical soup. Chemicals induce behavior as well as influence behavior. Basic biological instincts are chemically administrated.



What other functionality is there? lol[/QUOTE]
You attest to it's worth, perhaps the glimpse of a novel perspective that eases anxiety, allows you to apprehend the world in a more significant way.

 

And yet none of us here are naturally manufacturing our own psilocybin.

This conversation is going off track.
Can psilocybin and other naturally occurring psychedelic drugs potentially aid the psyche? Potentially (the same can be said for anything).
Is that what they are intended for? No.

 

Same can be said for vitamins.

Design, intended or not. Advancement is a serendipitous convergence of opportunity. If mans association with fungi can be demonstrated to increase their range by virtue of human interest in their psycho active properties, then it could be argued that it was intended.