Disapointed with LSD

alright then, for the ram its about getting fucked up....or maybe theres some kind of addiction taking place? i dont know. whether they enjoy it or feel compelled to consume it, the psychedelic properties of the plant do not seem to act as a self defence. the ram is still alive and eats it when it finds it, it is not detered.

edit-this thread is getting long....but still i cant help but feed this debate.

 

Okay, time to come to my point. (and your observation that all these lifeforms were here long before humans helps my point - thanks)

Why can't all these myriad forms of plant life simply be? Why assume any of their properties are defensive? Is it not possible that they are simply a representation of the variety of creation? Why, considering they've been here longer than us, would you presume that some properties such as thc or psilocybin has to be defensive while something like carotene is not? Just because many things have varying effects on johnny-come-lately humans is no reason to begin classifying properties as intrinsically defensive, especially when we're talking about non-brained plant life.

 

Again, the ram is the exception to the rule, if we just go back to focusing on the plant, in the general spectrum of things it's working spectacularly as a defense.

 

This goes against evolution as we know it for something like that to "just be" and I'm not ready to shelve the collective knowledge of science. Even the shape of leaves on plants develop to maximize humidity/sunlight conditions in their area.

 

Argghhhhhhh.
The arguing is killing me. haha.

Basics, psychedelics are neither good or bad.
They are a medium, and all their power is in the hands of the user.

 

so then what isnt eating psilocybin mushrooms? rodents are, people are, bugs are, probably more that i dont know of. and i'd bet dollars to dimes the ram isnt the only living thing that eats this lichen either.

alright alright...im gonna be done here. because...we dont know why. we're all just making our best guesses here and debating them.

 

Dig this...

Psychotropic substance-seeking: evolutionary pathology or adaptation?

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...zbjSXd&sig=AHIEtbRbfnwlnh_tEEvsYhy0SYGZmglePw

 

And where does 'defensiveness' come in? If defensiveness is a universal aspect of all lifeforms (as you say 'nothing can just be') then carrots, broccoli, pears, marijuana and mushrooms must all 'think' they're defending themselves in some way.

So I say again, when it comes to none-brained plant life, maybe they are just representations of the variety of creation and defensivness per se is not really a factor as it is the animal realm.

 

Nature is not "nice".
Defensiveness comes from a need to defend one's self.
All organisms must defend themselves in such fashion, everything eats and everything else can be eaten. Not all defensive mechanisms are as sophisticated as others, and no defensive mechanisms can be universally applied to all potential predators.

 

Yes, even no-brained plants do things to ensure their survival and spread.

 

So every plant, vegetable, fruit, fungi is trying to be a poison against animals including homo sapiens?

 

No.
Not all defensive mechanisms are specifically neurotoxins that act upon consumption, and as I just stated, no defensive mechanisms can be applied to all potential predators.
No one is saying that everything is trying to be a poison, what I'm saying is that all organisms have a need to protect themselves from predators, that the ability to protect themselves directly affects their ability to reproduce, and that psilocybin's presence in certain mushrooms seems likely as an antipredator adaptation.

 

Why is thc more likely to be a defense than carotene? I'm not asking why it's better at being a defender, I'm asking why we automatically classify one as such but not the other (and by we I mean madcapsyd).

 

Because most botanist would agree and it's a bit of common sense, it doesn't matter if a ram eats fungus, or a reindeer will eat mushrooms, the fact is most animals avoid plants that cause these things to happen in nature. There is nothing that can be seen as beneficial in psychedelic intake. Even in humans, most humans should not ever take acid for example, you ever see a human literally go insane on acid? It's one thing when a ram is tripping out grinding its teeth to the gums, it's another when a species that depends on logical cognitive thought and has the ability to manipulate things suddenly loses all logical linear thought patterns and goes completely off their rocker.

 

I'd also add that, speaking in specifics, carotene is a pigment that is vital in photosynthesis, which is how plants get their food. It is synthesized by plants, but the difference is that we know exactly what it is for - aiding in photosynthesis. It doesn't have any defensive properties. While psilocybin is manufactared by mushrooms, we don't know what exactly it is there for. We do know the effects psilocybin has on the human brain, not the least of which are confusion, disorientation, and often fear.
And so, this is what this discussion is about - people speculating on what psilocybin is for, and so far the hypothesis on it's role as a defense mechanism seems to make the most sense.

 

You're the most exaggerating madcap I've ever met.

 

Absolutely not.

Has the presence of THC guaranteed the survival and flourishment of the marajuana plant? The answer is indeed yes, it is grown in virtually every country in the world in large quantities.


Oh and for the actual debate... there is probably another reason that mushrooms have psilocybin in them other than to ward of preditors. As has been said, it is very hard to draw a line of causation to something eaten over an hour ago for an animal I would think.

 

Yes, the marijuana plant is in fact psychic and knew someday one species with the power to harness fire and growing would come along.

 

sounds like you ate some real bad shit..if you had done good LSD you would know it..in my experience i have had more fun on lsd than shrooms

 

Oh Mad, have you never had a good acid trip? Or did you just scare the shit out of yourself reading about it?

I don't partake any more, but I'll tell ya what,
I have tripped hundreds of times with many different people...Can't say I ever saw anyone go " literally insane" ...
You'll probably say it happens, but I say those people were fucked up mentally to begin with...
also certain people go insane on different drugs for other reasons. Alcohol for instance, case in point, Native Americans.

LSD can induce indescribable feelings and profound personal insights you wouldn't know you were capable of...or not.
I had a few "bad trips" but nothing scary or insane, just not really pleasant as one would expect...usually related to drinking or smoking too much or not enough rest for a good trip.



I dare say I believe religion and indeed spirituality may have began with the ingestion of psychedelic plants, (in particular the "Soma" mushroom.
Amanita muscaria) lifting primitive man from his flight, fight or fuck mentality to an inkling there might be something more...

Check this out..(.Bold added)



"The earliest evidence of Amanita muscaria being used as an intoxicant is based on analysis of languages from northern Asia. Sometime around 4000 BCE, the Uralic language split into two branches. Both of these branches contain similar root words for intoxication.
In these languages the root word pang can be used to mean both intoxicated and the Amanita muscaria mushroom. These linguistic similarities suggest that Amanita muscaria was known to be intoxicating before 4000 BCE.
The Hindu religion has four books of Vedas (the main scriptural texts of Hinduism). The Vedas are possibly the worlds oldest religious texts that are still in use.
The RigVeda (which was completed orally before 1500 BCE) is a collection of hymns dedicated to the gods. It tells of the ritual consumption of the psychoactive drink called soma.
The SamaVeda is a collection of hymns to be chanted by the priests during important sacrifices in which the juice of the soma plant (mixed with milk and other ingredients) was offered to various gods.



http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/var012.htm