Did learning about 9/11 change the way you think

Oh, and Fred Durst covering Wish You Were Here.

 

watching it happen, and all the crap after it did, made me feel disappointed, because our world was well on its way toward universal peace before it did.
no it didn't change my outlook or perspective, i watched live kennidy get shot and the first human foot on the moon too.
hell i was already in fifth grade when sputnic when up.

and it wasn't islamists or even alcaida, either.
everyone lost on that day, except the right wing idiots responsible because they couldn't stand the idea that world peace had been on the brink of happening.
they lost too, except for their precious symbolic gain, they just haven't figured it out yet.

 

Yeah, ditto what Neon said.

Thats the way I remember it, a whole lot of bloodlust, someone was going to get some pay back somehow, somewhere, didnt really matter where.

I think blaming the government is BS, the public wanted payback. If 9/11 hadnt happened, the WMD excuse for Iraq wouldnt have worked. Wouldnt get far if you tried the same thing now with Nth Korea for example.

Similar kind of thing with Kosovo, it was just some regional little war we shouldnt meddle with...until everyone started hearing the phrase "ethnic cleasing" then whammo, all of a sudden it was on

 

Kennedy was really the one responsible for Vietnam, he shouldnt have sided with Diem

Well, the French most responsible, they should have fucked off after WW2.

But next most at fault, Kennedy shouldnt have sided with Diem, dude was an obvious fascist

 

i don't think you're understanding the context of his time. he would have been empeached for treason if he had tried to.
you're absolutely right that diem was a fascist, and

you're right of course in the sense that the moral course for the u.s. would have been to establish peaceful relations with ho,
(or to simply have left it to the people there to work things out and let matters take their course)

but the political climate in which he existed was the era of mccarthyism.
if anything, he was killed for what he was doing to try to end that era, that and segrigation and all the rest of it.

could he have done more (to end that whole ideological prejudice thing, and the rest of it)? i don't know. if he hadn't been killed he very well might have.
kennidy didn't put the u.s. in viet name. that commitment was a legacy policy he inherited when he took office.

 

Yeah, I know, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and everyone was ultra paranoid about communism then, but I dont believe Ho chi minh was a communist at that stage, or at least could have been swung back to "choosing" the US. Kennedy would have had fat chance convincing others.

Still he knew full well what Diem was. And if he hadnt backed Diem, would have had a flow on affect, not just with Vietnam, but the whole region.

And I mention it in this thead, because Saddam was a fascist. As with the likes of Diem, even Ghathafi once enough people go missing, there is always going to be an internal struggle leading to a civil war to get rid of them, even if it takes decades.

The US was right to go after Saddam, or more specifically, the region would have all ended up in a bigger shitfight if they hadnt, even with whats happened over the last 16 years

 

If you understood how the towers were built you would have some understanding why the floors pancaked one on top of the other.
You should google the design and build of the trade center towers, it was not a traditionally designed structure. The floors were solely supported by the outer shell, once the outer structure gave way to the heat and the first floor gave way there was no where to go but straight down. The Minoru Yamasaki design gave each floor an open floor plan, if no offices were walled up you would be able to see unobstructed though every side on every floor. There was no supporting structure for the building aside from the shell.

 

whether or not you're right about saddam, what he had to do with 9-11 was zero.

timing tells a very different story about him. he was rumsfeld's sweetheart as long as he was building palaces and screwing his people,
it was when he was going to start using the money the u.s. gave him to build his palaces to start building schools,
and price his oil in euros instead of dollars, that the u.s. put him in the cross hairs.

and i think you're completely mistaken about the results of doing so. i don't believe what became the so called 'islamic state', would have ever gone in the direction that it did.
the situation as it exists today in syria and turkey and a number of other places around the region, would have been much less tense and more livable for the people there.

not that there wouldn't have still been conflicts and problems, but of very different, and quite possibly more locally managable sorts.

 

Thats your crazy arse theory? US invaded once he started building schools instead of palaces?

 

that was the timing. how much was cause, of course i have no inside knowledge, nothing that isn't publicly available. but that was the timing.

 

that was the timing. how much was cause, of course i have no inside knowledge, nothing that isn't publicly available. but that was the timing.

there was another thing he had started doing that was more naughty, and that was toward a particular traditional indigenous sub culture,
the people who build those giant read shared shelters.

so i'm not trying to claim or defend him as a nice guy. but again, the timing is what it was.

 

In the aftermath of 9/11 and I guess more so recently, it's opened my eyes as to how whacko some people are with their conspiracy theories.

 

It's made me realize how whacko the people are who actually trust the US government. That's a special kind of crazy.

 

Jon Stewart sticks by praise for Trump administration's handling of 9/11 fund

 

I think in the case of 9/11 conspiracies its not that all people who reject those theories have an infallible trust in the US government; they simply distrust most theories even more. Which seems wise. Question everything remember?

 

They distrust them outright without even bothering to think about it. And many of them get angry when confronted with the possibility. The truth is that forces in our government do conspire. But if you dare suggest that anything might have been one of these conspiracies, you are labeled a nut or a whacko. There is literally no conspiracy theory that you won't be labeled a nut or a whacko for espousing a belief in. According to most people, there is no such thing as conspiracy. If you believe in a conspiracy, you are a conspiracy theorist and a nut.

It's the language anti-conspiracy theorists use as well. People who believe in a conspiracy are called names and labeled like they're crazy. And most people are okay with this. Whereas if you label anyone else for anything else, you are regarded as a monster. But it's okay to disregard "conspiracy theorists" in such a fashion. And, of course, this all works out really well for actual conspirators.

What I think is that people don't fundamentally care if there is ever a conspiracy. They automatically believe official stories and don't want to admit to being so easily led. They feel safe and secure in their little bubbles and can't tolerate anything that lies outside of that. I don't know how else to explain the anger with which they react to conspiracy theories. It's just a theory, after all. And a lot of them are probably also sadists who just get off on harming innocent people.

 

I think you explained it quite clear and yeah, i heard it before. It's unfortunate and nasty. I only feel like its always so black and white over there. Like, you can accept there are conspiracies in the government AND trust the government on a lot of other stuff (not blindly or without asking questions mind you). I may only hope it counts for most people vocal about this stuff, or most people you heard about this, not really most people in general..

 

As far as 9/11 goes, conspiracy ideas were just a natural progression. When you have documents with the World Trade Center in crosshairs, known conspiracies of flying jets into skyrises as a pretext to war, PNAC saying they need a new Pearl Harbor, and just who stood to gain from the towers' collapse, it was inevitable that people began becoming suspicious. Yet people act like they just can't fathom that anyone would believe anyone within intelligence circles of the US government knew anything. It was all just one big happy accident for Bush, Cheney, the oil companies, and the military industrial complex. Before 9/11...they were just going to complacently fade away into obscurity.

 

I just don't see why "nut" or "whacko" even has to enter into such debates, except to marginalize and dehumanize others. The fact is that so-called conspiracy theorists can go toe-to-toe with those that accept the official record of events on many issues. I've seen debates go on forever with no real conclusion.

 

i was like literally 12 at the time. i guess it made me more into the crazy "prepper" type.