Determinism - just another theory?

Yep. I think free will is just another way of saying choices, imo.

 

The world could not exist without pain. Without pain...well, you wouldn't do anything. There'd be no reason to, because you wouldn't have to satisfy any desires. Without suffering nothing happens, and all so-called evil just stems from the existence of pain and suffering. I don't get people who pretend to have a problem with the existence of bad things. It's like, okay, but do you want to exist at all? Just imagine a world where no one ever dies or gets hurt and everything always goes smoothly...there would be no point whatsoever. We might as well be cartoons in that case.

 

Taking a dump is free will?

 

It's logically incoherent for a God which is assumed to possess' those qualities to that extent to allow evil. The problem of evil essentially created a whole branch of theology known as theodicy, which has attempted to come up with responses to it, it's probably one of the strongest arguments in Philosophy of Religion. If it were a mere fallacy this wouldn't be the case. The free will response is decent but it doesn't cover the issues of natural disasters, diseases, famine, etc.

Did you consider that perhaps it was you that misunderstood the The Problem of Evil and created a fallacious argument when you identified as an atheist? (which seems to be the case if that neighbor analogy was your interpretation of it)

Anyways...perhaps against my better judgement I went ahead and wrote a simple computer program illustrating the Problem of Evil. Basically if you follow the orange comment lines, it explains the code and contains the premises and conclusion of the argument. The conclusion is outputted in the 2nd box below. I figure the logical argument with logical operations might help demonstrate that this isn't merely a belief type thing or fallacious.

... so another reason I made this program, is that at the end there are 2 "choices" for the program (delineated by the 1 and 2) but given the premises, it's always going to return the same output. So shouldn't free will have qualities which differentiate itself from choice? or perhaps we don't want to call what this program is doing choice, but then what do we view it as?

 

Why do you care if I believe in God? lol
Many people do. I don't mind having healthy discussions about God, with people who don't believe. But, not if their intent is to make believers look stupid. It's just not my thing to engage with that, anymore.

 

I don't care what you believe, it's the type of arguments you make that I care about.

Why do you get so defensive? The point of addressing these topics is to analyze them and think about them critically, is it not?

 

lol Not defensive at all. That's your point, not really mine. I believe what I believe, and I don't really find value in these arguments, anymore. Like I said, if the person I'm having a discussion with respects my views, as I respect theirs, and we are just exchanging ideas, etc then I'm cool with that. But, your tone is always that of disrespect, so meh...I'll sit this one out.

 

On a site where people religiously level ad hominem attacks against each other, I get dubbed as having a "tone of disrespect."

I must be doing something right.

 

Ad homs and disrespect shut down dialogue, usually. You get more flies with honey, than with vinegar, as the old adage goes. lol

 

I actually don't find your tone disrespectful. I find your views very useful in examining my own thoughts.

I'm keen to respond properly on the actual topic but I can't handle doing that on my phone at work.

 

I don't find the problem of evil very compelling. Like I said, if the world were different, it wouldn't exist. So if it's good that the world exists at all, I think we have to accept the pain and suffering that go along with it. It's like, what are atheists asking for...that there are no tectonic plates so there would be no earthquakes? No core to the earth so there would be no volcanoes? No rain so there would be no hurricanes? And the evil people commit...what, are evil doers just supposed to keel over and die every time they try to do something bad? And then, I suppose, God would have to kill them BEFORE they actually did something bad, right? And then you'd be wondering, "Why are all these people dying? Why does God allow for this Sudden Inexplicable Death disease?"

There's this huge domino effect that everything has on everything else. You want all of the good things in life, but you want to magically erase all the bad things. Just think of your movies and tv shows and video games, for instance, in this perfect world. What are they going to be about? Vegetarian bears eating fruit in the woods?

 

When where and how is, and you can stick a plug in there or kill yourself if you really dont want to...so yeah kind of is.

 

You also don't seem to comprehend the argument. The problem of evil eliminates the depiction of a type of God, it acknowledges evil exists (hence the name) and takes it as a fact of the world. The argument doesn't negate that good exists or even more good than evil exists necessarily. It doesn't even eliminate concepts of God such as those depicted as some ineffable force or God as Supernatural Programmer Simulating the universe or other concepts of it.

Atheists, or even all theists for that matter, didn't conjure up that depiction of God. It's a response to it...

While I think evil is a part of human nature and not all aspects of it are going to magically disappear, I don't think the amount or ways it has manifested are necessarily immutable. For instance, slavery was once a widespread common practice and that has certainly been diminished in recent human history.

 

Why ''argue'' any points? If you don't believe in God, then that is your choice. I don't understand atheists or theists ''need'' to argue over their beliefs. Even Jesus said to shake the dirt from one's sandals if your words aren't being heard. If you're not being ''welcomed.'' He was a wise one, Jesus.

 

Difference (although overlap ) between "arguing" and "arguments".

Argument - Wikipedia

 

I have not tried the plug method yet, so maybe I'm in error but I'm pretty sure most of us as babies had many shitty diapers before we learned when, where and how to poop.

 

Okay, then. I don't remember, have you always been an atheist? Were you ever a believer? I was raised to believe, then left the faith like five years ago, and then returned.

 

Deidre, do you mind sharing what led you to believe again?
I was raised a Christian but I cant really imagine going back to it - so it's always been a point of interest for me as to what makes previous believers turned non believers believe again
And I promise i'm not asking to argue lol, i'm just genuinely interested

 

lol I appreciate that.

Um, how should I explain this? I was quite turned off to prayer and anything having to do with Christianity, and God, really. But, two years ago, I experienced what I think was a holy spirit experience? Something ''happened'' and it defied logic to me, as we tend to see things. I got back into praying, and I don't really go to church much, this is more of a personal relationship now with God, that I have. I find that my life has become quite enriched. It's not perfect, but following Christ's message as it actually is, not as the American Church distorts it to be, has been very rewarding.

 

Your trying to be funny but you are not.