Desexualization and Nudism and the falloff of popularity

My wife and I have been nudists for the last 28 years ever since we met. We have visited all different types of nude clubs to venues to beaches to campgrounds and multiple countries. In addition, I have been involved in multiple nudist sites/forums and the following are some of my observations and beliefs based on these experiences. 1) the vast majority of people online engaged on forums or sites are older males. 2) Many nudists that go to AANR clubs are hyper sensitive to anything even hinting toward sex. 3) Many that call themselves “Naturists” do not groom themselves and care less about their appearance. 4) in general those that attend adult themed resorts care much more about their appearance and health 5) Women and not just nudist women, like to look beautiful, dare I say sexy. 6) The ongoing question of how to get more women engaged and or involved in nudism. 7) My general conclusion is that the nudist movement suffers from decoupling their sexuality from their nudist self to try and purify the cause. The result is less and less normal people have less and less in common with their principles outside of the fact that anyone that has swam naked will always wish to swim naked…LOL. People inherently love to be naked. They just generally hate the baggage that comes along with it. The nudist ultra conservative movement alienates the rest of normal people that would otherwise want to be nudist. My wife has many tattoos and we both have piercings. It is not until more recently that both tattoos and piercings have become more accepted. These are examples of how they judge and alienate otherwise normal people in society so they limit their potential membership and or growth of their movement. Then the constant bashing of men and their normal behaviors. Men are inherently the more aggressive or sex positive of the two genders. Yet consistently they are made out to be creeps. There are tons of posts regarding erections and how evil they are, but yet they are completely normal. I am not saying they are as normal as breathing or eating, but without suppressing them. The point is without negative social pressures, they would in fact be more common. Yet anytime someone brings a question to a forum or wants to discuss their concerns or questions they are put down as trolls or creeps. Granted many may be, but some may also just be normal people growing up and trying to see how they can fit in or even if they want to for that matter. In the end, I propose that if we became more tolerant of all different types of people’s behaviors, and more embracing of diversity, we might see a revival of the nudist movement. Just look at the 70s and the free love era. I am not advocating for free love or open public sex, but I am advocating for more tolerance for diversity and yes, less purification and removal of sexuality from the nudist experience.

I would love to hear others thoughts on this.

 

Men, in general, need to focus more on actual intimate relationships and have more sex behind closed doors and therefore not feel the need to be thinking about suppressing boners while in non-sexual settings.

I am getting sick of men saying nude beach boners are normal in the face of a 20:1 male to female ratio in nudist/naturist settings. I mean, take a look around you .. could it possibly be any more obvious?!? Women don’t want to be subjected to this unwelcome introduction of sexuality in allegedly naturist settings. At this point, my dudes, all that you’re proving is that erections reduce IQ. Which, I mean, everyone already knows.

Bodies are great! The feeling of air on the skin is great! Tattoos are great! I’m literally getting a new one tomorrow, The celebration of the human body is great! But men and their brains. Not great. Nine times out of ten, we are going to reduce the discussion about all of it to boners while at the same time stupidly wondering why more women aren’t involved.

I mean, fucking DUH!

My 2 cents.

 

My feelings exactly. How sad that such a wonderful opportunity to enjoy clothes free experiences is tainted by a weird few. Before Covid my wife and I went to a resort in Jamaica that featured a clothing prohibited beach…of the several hundred people on the beach one time and or the other….O issues, none. Do those few who act inappropriately in some nude settings act inappropriately with their clothes on….probably. As far as I’m concerned the discussions about erections at nude beaches are equally inappropriate.

Moderators, can you close such threads to free the rest of us from such trash?

Its time for the rest of us on hipforums to stop the mixing of a very healthy experience with unhealthy discussions and pseudo angst.

 

I have been going to naturist events and beaches since my late teens, I can honestly say I have never had an erection. I think in my teens I struggled a bit and clung to my towel in terror, but I can't remember it ever happening.
I have read so many men and women shout that men should control there penis's, how would you do that? I've never figured that out. In conversation with other guys they haven't been able to answer this either.
I think it will always be around as a subject because there will always be newbies wanting to get involved. But, because people get so angry about it, it terrifies the life out of them so they run. If we all got done from our sanctimonious horses and treated the subject in a more rational way, maybe naturist would attract more couples and be treated with less suspicion. I have heard it said on numerous occasions that those who shout the loudest are the worst offenders.
Why not just be kind and empathetic of real fears, instead of rude, aggressive and sanctimonious (as a movement, not aimed at anyone here)

 

Stuart Little, you summed up my feelings better than I did. Also, the fact that others that react so aggressively toward even a comment about an erection is truly where any legitimate concerns come from. Yes there are trolls that are just stirring the pot, but there are concerns from newbie nudists that are fueled by those that cannot stand even the word erection and those that say that men’s brains are screwed up somehow. And, that any discussion should be shut down completely. If they were soo horrified to even the talk about it, why even take the time to read my post or even better, to spend time to respond. I think also, the same type of reaction rubs off on others including women. The more we are horrified by other people’s behaviors the less they (women) feel comfortable as well. I used to be guilty of the same reactions, but as I have grown older, I realize much of the issue was my own. I think back of a time 20 years ago when we were at Turtle Lake Resort for Nudefest. We were there with my son. We were sitting watching the band that was playing. The lady sitting in front of us 20 feet away was flirting and being suggestive. I being new to social nudity went and said something to one of the staff. They shrugged it off and said that she was always a bit “Randy” but meant no harm. I think back and they were right. It really was no big deal. I was the one hyper sensitive because my son was there. Reality was she wasn’t overt about it and my son was too young to even notice her flirtatious behavior. The point is that we all just need to relax and enjoy and stop being so up tight in general and the rest will take care of itself.

 

I'm interested in other things apart from naturism, and I'm on discussion forums about those topics, and I'm sure everyone else here is doing the same thing. But what doesn't happen in any of those other places but does consistently happen on naturist boards, is people talking about sex. There could be forums where sex is the interest, and I could even read them, but elsewhere, no. It's just here in a naturist group that someone has to introduce sex as a topic, over and over again. Even here on Hipforums, where there is a whole list of boards to talk about sex! JH93022, do you not realize how repetitive this is?

As for what interests women versus men, just invite the ladies to a place where old guys are talking about sex. They'll come running.

 

I'm going to address the 7 points JH93022 made originally

1) the vast majority of people online engaged on forums or sites are older males. Yes they are, myself included. Us older males have discovered though life experience that we have less to hide in our opinions. So we put it out there.
2) Many nudists that go to AANR clubs are hyper sensitive to anything even hinting toward sex. Which drags down the feelings of being nude. Think how it feels to be nude, outdoors, sun shining, and a warm breeze wafting over your body. Is that not a sensual feeling? Why the silly opposition to being sexual while enjoying nudity amongst others. All that needs to be done is to control the outward expression of lust.
3) Many that call themselves “Naturists” do not groom themselves and care less about their appearance. Neither do many textile lovers. In a nudist environment a well groomed body attracts attention and is pleasing to the eye. Why? Because it is sensual, sexy, and much easier to associate with a groomed person than one who is not. Stand two people in a hardware store, one decently dressed, the other not. Who will the clerk want to help first?
4) in general those that attend adult themed resorts care much more about their appearance and health. IMO in an adult themed resort sexual relations are more likely to happen. That's part of the reason for attending such a resort. So in point 3, again, who would the hardware clerk tend to help first? Therefore it's a given that appearance and health are important for those attending such places.
5) Women and not just nudist women, like to look beautiful, dare I say sexy. I dare say this is not a profound statement but fact. Fact because women wish to impress with what is their best asset. Be it hair, breast size, facial features, or anything else that is visible to others. The reason women like to look this way is sexual. Plain and simple. Much like the peacock fanning his plume, it is done to attract others for sexual purposes.
6) The ongoing question of how to get more women engaged and or involved in nudism. The answer is a tough one to give. Men have a different emotional outlook driven by testosterone and are more apt to be adventurous. Accept the fact that being nude amongst others falls somewhat into that category. A womans emotional outlook is of less adventurism and more security in their lives. Watch a couple walk by. The majority of the time the male is in the lead, taking charge. He is known as "the man of the house!" Women by nature are more protective of their bodies and surroundings. Clothing adds a layer of security. Being nude lessens that secure feeling they seek and until a woman can feel secure, she will remain in the textile world.
7) My general conclusion is that the nudist movement suffers from decoupling their sexuality from their nudist self to try and purify the cause. This is what is unavoidable when presenting your body naked for all to see. Sexuality that is. People see a person that catches their eye the thought, as sublime as it may be, is one of sex. That cannot be decoupled especially when the body is fully exposed. It is our nature to want to mate with other humans and the initial sight drives that want. We cannot help ourselves to avoid these feelings no matter how hard we try to separate nudity from sex. We can't even avoid the want to mate with a clothed person that catches our fancy much less one who is fully exposed.

 

Yet you are here on this thread chastising me for speaking of not even sex but of sexuality. If the topic does not interest you, why even engage? I truly am and have been a nudist for pretty much my entire adult life. I enjoy being naked whether alone or with others. I prefer environments that allow for more sensuality and in my experience there are plenty of women that also enjoy this as well. They just do not tend to frequent many nude beaches or AANR clubs and I think it is due partly to the lack of sensuality. What you are left with is the extremes. On one hand the ultra non-sexual nudist and the creep staring and stroking himself. It pushes out the normal people in the middle. It is like politics on the left and right. Normal people live in the middle. Hope that makes sense.

 

I'm chastising you for bringing the topic of sex, sexuality if you want to make the difference, into a naturist group. As I said (and you ignored) it always seems that naturism is where people bring this, never the forums where the topic is growing roses or restoring antique cars. If you or anyone else want to go to those places which aren't "nude beaches or AANR clubs" then good luck to you, and you could post about your experiences on one of the sex pages here at Hipforums and I'd never hassle you about it.

I claim that naturists don't reject sex any more than anyone else does. It's just that in most social environments, everyone keeps sex private, and that's so well understood that it isn't mentioned as a topic. And if someone did mention it, I think they'd quickly find it was unwelcome. But if naturists try to say the same thing, we get criticized, we're "prudes" or "against sex". Compare naturists against any other group, and I think we're just normal. If that's a problem generally in society, then go out and reform society. But don't start here.

 

From another thread, but seems to fit here. Just insert “naturism” where it says “ HipForums” and voila.

 

How is this even relevant to my post. I said nothing to sexualize or objectify women yet that is where you immediately go. I am actually talking about both sides only men’s arousal is much easier to see and is more consistently shouted down. And the arousal may or may not have anything to do with another person male or female.

 

It’s all about context and the obsession. It isn’t just women who are turned off by a need to turn healthy and sometimes sensual experiences into juvenile trash. Either online or in person.

 

I can understand that forum users can get tired of trolls posting fantasy, but I truly am trying to engage a healthy conversation. Yet I get drawn into protaganistic conversation with haters. Similar to homophobes but instead sexophobes LOL.

 

In your OP, you make a broad brush statement that basically all women like to look beautiful and sexy and then go on about erections being normal and that there’s no need to suppress them. If this isn’t objectification, I don’t know what is. Arousal doesn’t happen without a visual stimulus or sexual thought of some variety in the mammal kingdom. It doesn’t happen because of the sun and the air on your intimate bits as some like to claim. And you’re basically saying it’s OK to get aroused in the company of nudist women since they like to look sexy and are basically giving you permission to become excited while in their company. Sugar coat it all you want with sex positive verbiage but this is the kind of attitude that keeps women away from nudism/naturism and sometimes away from men entirely.

Also, your statement that people who define themselves as naturists are unkempt as compared to those who attend adult themed resorts is garbage.

You start off basically by calling people like me slobs and then accuse ME of being a hater when I call you out on it. LOL.

 

I apologize if you took my comments personally. I would like to reiterate a couple statement that I made that should color ALL of my statements. “Based on my experiences” and “in my opinion”. Also the invitation for discussion implies that I am interested in others perspective. I personally am not a joiner when it comes to labels and also do not intend on imposing any general characteristics on ALL people that may identify as a certain label. Just because in my experience those that I have known that considered themselves naturist were in fact less apt to groom, does not equate to me calling “you” a slob. I am not that way and do not intend on letting you drag me in to that type of discourse. Now for clarification on my earlier individual statements which I numbered. They were all separate generalities that I wanted to make and then bring them together in an overall analysis of my experiences in how they all intersect. I am sorry that you are not following this structure or agree with my theories. But my comments about haters are more specific to some of the statements that did in fact attempt to paint “me” as a creep and in general disparage “men” saying they should focus on more intimate sexual relationships. My intimate relationship with my wife is alive and well and has been for 28 years. Much is due to continuing to work at keeping the spice in our relationship, but that conversation does in fact belong in another thread that is for sex. I guess in the end let’s just agree that you are one of those that disagree with my assessments and move one, as you have dominated the conversation and likely for that have scared others and especially women from engaging in a more healthy conversation and I welcome their views, but something tells me you will not let that happen.

 

Ok , I think I can respond seriously to this discussion ,well seriously enough. Remember I'm blonde and I don't normally do serious,haha.

I see the problem with the Nudist v Naturist. These days it seems everyone is obsessed with labelling themselves and with an alphabet letter ; LGBT etc etc. No wonder there is conflict between Nudes and Nats you both begin with "N" ! Me I'm not going to be either I will be Nicky. Wait a minute that's N too, crap we're screwed. Nope I am going to be an "F" for Free. Oh and also as I'm Female I can be FF [ to all the guys that went "there" my perky "A" cups did not take offence,lol].

So as an FF I like to be nude, but not subject to rules. Perhaps this is why women are not so keen on organized venues. I am happy for the gentleman who attended a "clothes prohibited" venue but that is not for me ,nor is a venue "known for it's swinger attitude". Don't get me wrong I am not prudish but being organised is not my idea of Nudism ,Naturism or Nickyism.. I am happy to take my clothes of in public if it seems natural , I will have sex with others ,but again only if the situation is natural not contrived or subject to rules.

Now , I want to mention the "E" in the room. No, not "elephant" ,keep up [pun intended] but that dreaded word "erection". There does seem to be an awful lot of fuss about this so here is my two pennyworth.
I feel very sad for you guys. Society over time ,and I'm talking centuries, has mal educated you for various reasons depending on the era ,into believing that "having an erection" is something bad, something to be embarrased about, something you should learn to control [and be deemed a failure ,or worse if you can't], something to make fun of, an excuse for someone to deride the erectee [is that a word?]. In short an erection is really something to be ashamed of and you must feel awkward if you get one. NO , this is not right !! !. My heart went out to the guy who said he was terrified of getting an erection and so would not be naked. Because you have now developed, at society's request, some control over this natural event, "society" will use it against you to exercise some control over you.
I, a female, become aroused too ; far quicker than you guys by the way. They say "aah yes but female arousal is more discreet" that's crap they just don't tell you what to look for. The reason no fuss is made about my arousal is that I have absolutely no control over it just like I had absolutely no control over my menstrual flow. If I cannot possibly control my display of sexual arousal then society cannot either. The best thing they can do is to force me to hide it ,hence some cultures insistence of top to toe clothing. That doesn't work in a nudist scenario.

So that's my theory . I don't think I have explained myself very well . There is loads more in my head but it won't come out in print or maybe it will on another thread.

Solutions?
Aah that's tricky. Certainly much more tolerance is required ,but these days that applies to all situations in life. I think guys should try to be more relaxed and accept their erection for what it is - a natural display of sexual interest- nothing more nothing less.
It should never be classed as "inappropriate" , what you choose to do with it may be but not the mere erection.
Girls who are "offended" need to stop being that way . I will add here that in my opinion it is sometimes "fashionable" to be "offended" , please ask yourself are you really upset about the sight of a stand up penis ,really ? [ I'll get my tin hat and hide under the bed now]

What I do know for a fact is that ever any of you lovely people are on a Southern Brittany beach in July/August of most years and you come face to face with a blonde called Nicky then I will be happy to welcome you.
I will take your erection [yes you will have one ] as a compliment . It tells me that you are an honest person and worth spending time with. We will pass a pleasant time together . We can talk , walk along the shoreline hand in hand, kiss , maybe even make love in the dunes ,but above all we can enjoy the natural wonders of this marvelous planet naked as we should be. See you there xx

Nicky x [ FF]

 

This is the only part of your post I’m going to respond to as it makes no sense whatsoever. Prior to this post, I had two mid length posts and an imported quote from another thread. Total word count probably less than 1/3 of what you’ve written.

granite45 and I are two completely different people. Perhaps you became confused by the similar screen names and viewpoints.

Anyway, I really have no desire to converse with you further about anything. Happy holidays.

 

nickynicky,
Thank you for bringing some sanity into this discussion. I, like you, are more into the free part and only use nudist to describe my preferred state of undress. That is why if I had to choose nudist vs naturist, I choose nudist as it is inclusive of ALL that chose to be nude for whatever their reasons. I am very happily married, but if I were single, I would definitely be looking you up…….and down LOL. We actually visiting France next year and would love to run into you. I assume your were referring to Kerminihy beach. We are always looking for nude beaches when we travel and will try to include that one in our adventure. That being said, I am just glad that someone weighed in to offset the purist doctrine that imprisons so many of us, and I hope there are others as well. Even better when I get feedback from females also. It is refreshing to hear a woman’s perspective sometimes rather than all of the other men pounding their chest and telling us all how women feel or should feel.

 

Thank you Nicky x for bringing some sanity and a woman's viewpoint to this thread - it's greatly appreciated!