De's Liniment

Spoken like someone who has not found their Guru. Even Rama worshipped his Gurus - he washed their feet and offered flowers. He sat up at night pressing their feet and massanging them til they fell asleep.

Krishna too did the same in Sandeepany rishi's ashram.

A famous verse from Guru Gita -

Gururbramha guruvishnuhu gurudevo maheshwara
gurusaakshaat param bramha tasmai shri gurave namah.

- Guru is Bramha, the Guru is Vishnu and the Guru alone is Siva. Guru is that non-dual bramhan, to that Guru I bow down.

And if you take the point that Krishna is in everyone and everything, then where is the Guru different from Krishna? We go to a Guru and he teaches us our divine nature, and you expect us to think of him as anything less than divine?

Do you even understand the deep debt we owe our masters? Even if God and the Guru were to appear togethr, Kabirdasji says, I would first worship the Guru, because it is through his grace that I got the darshan of god.

"Guru govind dono khade, kaa ke laagaun paae; Guru balihari aapne Gobind diyo milaaye."

 

I agree with Bhaskar, if there were no teachers...how would we learn? Even Teravada Buddhists, who believe in finding realization with just yourself and that no one else can do it for you, take refuge in the Buddha (who reveiled how to be enlightened), as well as the Dharma (the way to enlightenment) and of course the Sangha (the community of monks...who are also their teachers).

How could we not thank the gurus for all they have done for us, in showing us the way, when we are so limited? For preparing our minds to start and continue the quest to reach God?

Isn't even Krishna a Guru (as well as God) for didn't he reveal teachings to Arjuna?

 

From the Padma Purana:

aaraadhanaanaam sarveshaam
vishnoraaraadhanam param
tasmaat parataram devii
tadiiyaam samarchanam

Lord Siva tells Parvati devi: Of the worship of all forms of the divine, the worship of Vishnu is the greatest. But even greater than the worship of Vishnu is the worship of his devotees.

 

It is my personal opinion that what Krishna and Rama did is quite different from what people do today. My guru however is Sriman Chinna Jeeyar Swami, ofcourse he is not my personal guru but adipathi of sorts of Sri Vaishnavas in the south.

God is the supreme Guru, Guru is not God.

From personal experience, I have realized that guru imparts knowledge , that is God, the person as he is, sometimes acts in an ignorant fashion then he is not representing God at that time. IMO, we should respect him for his knowledge and Godly qualities.

I am sorry if I have offended you with any of my comments Mr. Bhaskar, that was not my intention. I understand the scriptures yes, but I also understand that practically in this kali yuga there is only one real guru, one's own inner consciousness which is krishna. Everyone acts in an ungodly fashion, even the greatest of God's devotees, yogis have been known to make mistakes, people like us cannot choose to be blind to this fact. Hence, we cannot worship anyone as equal to God.

 

It is to realize krishna and dissolve material and spiritual boundaries, which happens automatically once one realizes krishna. but I like the vaishnava explanation of how before we realize that- we definitely have to continue to perform spiritually conducive acts.

 

woah I was only writing what I thought and I have a right to criticize , just as you have the right to post any thing about anyone here and not care for my criticism.

It was not personal!.

 

so why are you getting upset with my criticism?

 

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Jedi, I am not going to bother arguing with you. No amount of scripture or logic is going to reach you. One day, if you are lucky enough to find a teacher, you will understand.

Meantime let me simply recall a statement frmo Tulsi Ramayan - If God gets angry with you, then the Guru can save you. But if the Guru gets angry, even God cannot help you. Indeed the Guru is greater than God.

 

I think that needs to be very carefully considered.....I don't really see how that could be possible.

To give a crude anaology, it's like saying a battery is greater than electricity itself.

 

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You are making the common mistake of taking an analogy or statement outside it's intended bounds.

From the angle of the story that went with the statement (of Kakabhusundiji's guru saving him form the wrath of Lord Siva) , it is true.

And then again, God is all-pervading, yet what is the use if we have no experience of it? And that experience comes only from the Guru, so the Guru in that sense is greater.

A battery is greater than electricity in the sense that it stores and provides power where it would not otherwise be accessible.

Of course in the end, you must conclude that they are in fact equal, one is useles without the other.

 

Mere Gurudev - Krishna Das

1. Mere Gurudev, charanon par sumana shraddha ke arpita hai
Tere hee dena hai jo hai. Wahi tujha ko samarapita hai

My Gurudev I offer these flowers of my faith at your feet
Whatever I have, you have given to me, and I dedicate it all to you.

2. Na priti hai pratiti hai, na hi puja ki shakti hai
Meraa yaha man, meraa yaha tan, meraa kan kan samarapita hai

I have no love, nor do I know you.
I donÕt even have the strength to worship you,
But this mind of mine, this body of mine,
my every atom is dedicated to you.

Tuma hee ho bhaava men mere, vicharon mein, pukaron mein.
Banaale yantra ab mujhko mere saravatra samarapita hai

You are the only one in my heart and my thoughts.
You are the one who I call out to.
Now Make me your instrumentÉall I am I offer to you.

 

"the guru is greater than god cuz the guru gives god" dunno who said that but someone did

 

That's my primary disagreement with Hindu philosophy in general - I don't think a guru is necessary in all circumstances.
Which is just as well, given the record of popular gurus in the west.

 

Of course, immediately you bring up the example of some faker. Such a person is NOT a guru. To use them as examples of Gurus is like taking a wooden nickel to exemplify all currency.

And of course a Guru is necesary. How can you learn anything without a teacher? Not that the Guru is always human or a sanyasi. In the bhagavatam is the story of the aavadhoota Dattatreya Yogi, whose Gurus were birds, animals, children, prostitutes, etc. He observed the world around and learnt from it. In that case, it becomes like the song my teacher wrote - vishvam Gurur mama - the entire world is my teacher.

Even you would not be here speaking or writing if it were not for a Guru - how else would you know language?

 

I don't regard my parents, from whom I imbibed language, as gurus.

As I'm sure you know, a guru is supposed to be a spiritual teacher - or more than that even. When I say 'no guru', I mean no guru in the sense of the traditional guru/chela relationship as mentioned for example, in the Gita.

Of course I have learned from many people - but none of them really a guru in that sense.

 

Yes i am ignorant and I will never understand any scriptural logic that comes so easily to some. What I do know is this, In my humble opinion, I am nothing with out krishna, my guru is also just nothing with out krishna. Krishna is our ultimate refuge, if my guru gets mad at me, then I look for krishna to save me, if he does not , then thats ok, I will wait forever, because with out him I am lost anyway.

krishna is my only teacher, I will wait until he comes down to teach me. Because I have trouble trusting anyone in this age of kali.

 

Precisiment!!! If you are nothing without Krishna, that is advaita bhava! There is no you, what is there is Krishna! Krishna as the cowherd and the cows, Krishna as the forests and peacocks, Krishna as the flute and Krishna as the music, Krishna as Yamuna and Krishna as the Gopis, Krishna as you, Krishna as Guruji, Krishna as New York and New Delhi!

That is the crux of the matter!

What are you waiting for? Krishna is not sitting somewhere in the sky, biding his time before landing on Earth to deliver a sermon. Krishna is all around you, right here and now, Krishna is within you. Krishna is your teacher! Krishna is crying out for your attention everywhere and in everything! What are you waiting for?

 

Well, anyone who teaches you anything, even a single word, must be honored as a Guru, according to the shastras (which, considering we are in a Hinduism forum, ought to be a sound basis for discussion, just as the works of Einstein would be in a physics conference).
Because that is the value of knowledge and that is the value of teaching.
But if you don't, you don't. Personally, I think it is quite ungrateful to not honor our parents for all they have taught us.