Democrats clean house, Republicans embrace sexual improprieties.

WHAT preconceived notions lol...you literally said you will not hire women anymore because they're a liability. Your words, not mine. That's discrimination. You admitted to discrimination. Why would I be surprised...

 

Person who admits to discrimination seems offended someone wouldn't be surprised they've already been sued for discrimination

Getthefuckouttahere

 

There's a girl where I work that will occasionally wear blouses that expose the entire upper half of her breasts. I (naturally) have no problem with this but she gets mad when men notice. Sorry to say this but men are going to notice that shit. I'm not saying I'd ever act on it because I wouldn't, but still. If that's not the reaction you're going for then why wear it. I may be off on a tangent here but, in my old age, I guess I'm realizing that some clothes just aren't meant for the workplace.

 

I've never understood the idea of wearing suggestive clothing at work, yet some people don't seem to see the problem with it.

 

You assumed you knew it would be a female doing so. In fact it wasn't. I
I didn't say I plan on discriminating. You made the claim it was. Dont put words in my mouth. I never said I agreed with that. I said I won't risk hiring a woman due to liabilities and take my chances it's viewed as discrimination or not. If is far easier to not have a position available that a woman will want to apply for.

Kind of like this example. Wanted workers needed for pork slaughter house.

No Muslims will apply. Nothing discriminatory about it. They won't want to work there. Legally I'm not discriminating. If one chose to apply anyway, I'd deal with it then. There will be 29 reasons why they won't qualify for the position that I'm entitled to rely on. Incompatible attitude with workplace, or etc etc etc. Or I simply don't like them as a candidate. I'm entitled to make that call at least this week anyway.

Sue me.

 

It's no reason for a woman to be subjected to poor treatment from it but yes some seem to prefer that style of attire. They feel more attractive in their mind.

I can only hope it doesn't result in a male making any comment about any part of her when she does.

 

I absolutely agree. I'm just speaking from a personal standpoint. I support anyone wearing whatever makes them feel good. Personally I've seen far too many awkward situations arise that I'd rather avoid.

 

Exactly. Not worth it.

 

Your intent is obviously discriminatory. you've already said (obviously not word for word, wouldnt want to put words in your mouth) that you view women as a liability due to sexual harrassment charges (that seem largely an unfounded fear rather than anything grounded in reality) so you will not be employing women in the future. That is discriminatory. No use in back pedaling, just own it. My opinion isnt going to change just because you have some sort of legal work around.

Just like if you brag about opening up a pork processing plant so you wont have to employ Muslims. Can anyone legally get you for discrimination? No, but if you tell someone thats the specific reason you're opening a pork processing plant then obviously it will come across as discriminatory to that person

It doesnt really matter, I find your viewpoint laughably sexist and....that's it lol. Nice chatting with you either way

 

And I find your assumptions that no matter the circumstances, men are the predatory problem in all scenarios of sexual harrasment are exactly why we need to be leery of this type of culture in the workplace.

You are allowed to feel the way you do. I can't change that.

Next you will suggest I don't like Muslims because I'm opening a pork processing plant. One has nothing to do with the other.
It was an example of how you have to carefully craft the workplace to be the least problematic.

 

As a Republican, I'm glad that piece of shit wasn't elected. Because, like, morals before party, dude.

What's killing the party is all these people voting for these detestable people because they are Republican, instead of not voting for them because they are detestable.

THIS. So much this.

I have to laugh when I hear men talk about avoiding sexual harassment as if it's tip toeing across a minefield. It's really pretty simple to not sexually harass someone. But...dumb people

 

You make a lot of assumptions yourself, when did I say this

What I actually think is that sexual harassment charges should always be taken seriously. And likewise, false or frivolous accusations that waste a company's time and money should carry some sort of disciplinary action as well

But the simple fact of the matter is that statistically speaking, false accusations of a sexual nature are really rare.

 

Re: Garrison Kieller

His hand surely didn't touch a bare back by accident.

You must know more than what has presented as an account in print. If so please provide your source other than your skilled intuition.

I could go back and read again for more but that was the first obvious one I recall.

 

I have ZERO problem he didn't get elected. They spoke last Tuesday in the case of Alabama.

Now lets see if the Dems do the same when their time comes. They managed to win by a very thin margin over a piece of shit. Not a wide margin. A very thin one. Over a big piece of shit. The margin was by the percentage of write in votes that Rep. Senator Shelby encouraged the Republicans to do. They did so and that is the margin that he lost by. They didn't vote Democrat. They simply didn't vote for Moore. A side bit of history I learned about him. He actually was the last Democrat elected into Alabama senate office. Whereby he converted to Republican 2 years later. Interesting fact I thought. Nowhere have a I seen a hardy THANK YOU printed to Senator Shelby for that act.

Until it is no longer.

 

I don't know.

If someone's hand slipped somewhere unwanted, i would have elbowed them right there and then, put them in their place and have never gone near them again.....I would not have made a public stink about it to ruin someone's career.....and this has happened to me before many times with different people....

Now, really being raped by someone...that is a different story......This was not like raping a 13 year old and then threatening them with death threats or anything....was it?

 

I'm going by his words

He said his hand went up her shirt 6 inches

 

You kind of left out some content there. In full:
“I put my hand on a woman’s bare back,” he wrote. “I meant to pat her back after she told me about her unhappiness and her shirt was open and my hand went up it about six inches. She recoiled. I apologized. I sent her an email of apology later and she replied that she had forgiven me and not to think about it.”

Mr. Keillor claimed that they continued to be friends “right up until her lawyer called.”

You have some other version that convicts him?

 

Great to see some common sense here!!!!!!

 

Well I have been in the workforce with sexual harassment policies in place since 1983. Been in management since 1987. What constituted sexual harassment in 1983 is pretty much exactly as it is today. Not hard to understand it.

I have been involved directly in 15 reviews of complaints in the workplace. I watched it become weaponized in the late 90s and early 2000s.

In the 15 cases I was a direct witness to two of them. One was a female that groped a male. He immediately turned it in and there were 3 witnesses including myself. I was his boss. It was obvious and clearcut and the male lodged his complaint through proper channels. By the time it was over with, she retained outside counsel and in the end we were instructed that all of our statements made, we were told point blank, you and the other witnesses didn't see what you state you saw. It didn't happen that way. You were not to discuss it further. The female was re-assigned to another work area but that was the extent of it.

The next one I was a direct witness to involved my boss and company vehicles and cocaine and a female employee on our staff. He was actually arrested for cocaine use on federal property and the rest was left to our corporation to handle. He was a protected minority classification. The female admitted she felt obligated to have sex with him to secure her job and that she was not the only one. He did not lose his job. She lost hers. I don't need anyone lecturing me abuse of power or abuse of culture. I know all about it.

Of the rest, 4 were men that were guilty of in-appropriate actions as defined in policy and were reprimanded including termination in 2 instances. Then we get to the problem cases. She says one thing he says another in 3 cases. No proof existed. Counseling to both parties and back to the workplace under watch for a probationary period. Next we have the worst ones. The rest were females that make an accusation towards a male that they had had consensual sexual relations with at some point during their mutual employment. The females initiated it some instances and the males in others. One night stands or more ongoing that eventually got ugly when the male felt like ending it with them. Some were fired, some were not when the complaints were made. Then they approach us with outside counsel to make a complaint that has already been filed through EEOC. We can't say sex didn't take place as the men stated it was consensual and never attempted to deny that aspect. The devil is in how that gets turned into how the women has become a victim even though the testimony supports that she may have initiated the initial advances. In the end, sex in the workplace no matter which side it is initiated from is a liability to the company. It results in settlement money being paid out to avoid it getting ugly for the company. You can fire the men all day long but they want money and it will be at the cost of the company.

I know all about men doing things they shouldn't be doing. That culture exist and I can deal with it. I have never had charges made against me or any male that has ever worked for me. Don't assume we don't know what sexual harassment looks like and can't figure out ok from not.

But there exist a culture of it being weaponized. The attorneys see it a slot machine in Vegas that always pays. All they have to do is find someone that they can convince was involved in an unwanted workplace advance. This may or may not be happening now in Wa. or Hollywood. There has always been women and powerful men that get together due to their position. But allowing things to go undisclosed or no evidence from investigations presented, all start to smell like a convenient way to suck money out of a source or make them publicly look bad if they don't pay up. There has been quiet settlements made for years. Now it isn't. I'd like to know what has changed. It ain't ethics.

I won't subject myself or my company to the weaponization of sexual harassment actions.

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. You obviously believe his statement that his hand slipped up her shirt accidentally. And I don't. I actually have been trying to picture what kind of shirt design would turn a pat into a 6 inch upward slide and I've got nothing.
So I can understand why the woman was alarmed.

As far as her choice to call a lawyer instead of handling it on a personal level?

I've been sexually harrassed at work before and I handled it in a much more docile way than even moonglow's scenario. I basically shrugged/laughed it off. Another girl was harassed by the same man and she handled it in a more confrontational way. Nothing really changed for either of us, he kept doing it (he wasnt touching, just making sexual remarks).

Women who shrug it off or handle it on a personal, one on one level do not change workplace culture overall. Women who hire lawyers or take it to HR are the reason workplace culture is not stuck in the 1950s anymore.

Anyways. I do respect your personal experience and knowledge of the subject, thanks for sharing.