Dealing with unwelcome touching

I was going to label the thread title "inappropriate touching" but I thought that might cause people to think more along the lines of more extreme examples such as assault or groping. I do not think that this is a matter that is as straight forward at handling as many people might let on, and it is my own opinion that the only real way to learn about this is to share examples of your own, and your thoughts behind them. Little point in giving advice without reference experience.

It's not always as simple as saying "oh if you don't like someone touching you, you should just say 'don't touch me'". In any given social situation there might be several premises that you have accepted without realising, and how you handle the situation will depend on the status of the person who 'touches' you, and whether you perceive the crowd around to be on your side or not. There's a whole load of ways in which someone can't be touched, and many times it might actually be necessary to do so. There can also be a whole load of ways in which someone can be caught off guard. Even if you are brave enough to point out how your boss shouldn't do so and so, you might find that it would be harder to do so at such a point in time after you'd been late for work and weren't spoken to about it. But then later that morning if your boss, lets say, brushes up against your body too much when passing through a doorway, is that just a coincidence? In any case it would be harder to call out such behaviour after already feeling guilty about your own mistake. Some people have twisted minds and it's no harm to know a thing or two about how they think.

Don't get me wrong, you might think that after reading everything below that I'm allergic to being touched. I'm not! Also, please don't think that I'm bad at standing up for myself, because below are mainly examples of where I've failed at being able to do so. Below are my examples in bullet points. I understand the whole thing might be too long to read but I would appreciate maybe, that if an commenters could try to clarify how much they read before replying.

•The first three examples are to do with having your wrist grabbed. A colleague I worked with, when saying hello, put his hand around my wrist. I thought it kind of unusual. I'd be more inclined to grab someone's shoulder if I wanted to give the same kind of greeting. I said "don't be doing that to people" as I did it back to him. He just laughed and we carried talking.

•Once in college, during a meeting in with a middle-aged female career guidance councillor, i noticed that she would (when emphasising a point) gently put her thumb and index fingers around my wrist. Nothing mean spirited about it; you'd just feel like she was talking to you the way she'd talk to her own son.​

•This happened when another bus driver and I were changing over at a bus stop (I'm a bus driver). This particular guy is about 15 to 20 years older than me, and was always good enough to have a chat with but I did notice that you don't see him hanging around with other staff that often. As he was exiting the cab it seemed he sort of stumbled out, and when doing so needed to grab onto something and briefly grabbed onto my wrist. But there's something about the feeling of your wrist being completely enclosed that isn't very nice. But it did not seem like he really needed to grab me... he could have just made more of an effort to balance himself. A moment or so later when I was seated in the cab he said 'sorry'. I said 'for what?' and he said for not taking on the passengers (that were waiting outside)... which usually would be done by the new driver (me) anyway. I should have corrected him of course, but I didn't... most likely because I had him categorised as a nice guy. I did ponder a bit about what might have went through his mind when he did this. I could tell myself it's not a big deal until I ask myself how would I expect someone else to react if I did it to them... or until I ask myself if he'd have done the same to a female driver?". I haven't been too comfortable talking to him since. When I've come across him changing over times since this, I try to keep a bit more distance. For example yesterday I was sure to close the cab door (while we were chatting) as soon as I got in, in anticipation of him giving me a pat on the forearm when saying goodbye... you know, the sort of thing that you couldn't really give out to someone for, but that you'd prefer not to happen. Since then I have given a bit more thought as to why you don't see others around him a whole lot. What I would fear though, (crazy and all as it might sound) is that he might be gay. I know all too well myself that any bit of physical contact with an attractive woman even a few days prior can make for very stimulating thought when I wake up with morning wood.

•A guy at work who I was taking over from makes his presence known by saying "off you go now don't let the team down" as he gives me several pats on the shoulder/back. When I felt the first pat, I thinking "hopefully it'll just be one or two pats". But then I realised it was going to quite a few done to patronise me in front of others. I said I'd at least give a pat or two back with the one free hand I had. That was of course a weak attempt to stand up for myself and his pats became more forceful towards the end, as he realised that he could take full advantage.

•This one happened at the barbers. The guy was a tough guy and had a strong frame. When he tucked the cape underneath my collar he did it with a good bit more force than needed. Later when doing the back with the blade he was doing it with more force than needed. Now to be fair I do have this problem with a lot of male barbers. I wasn't too comfortable as I thought it was going catch one of the hairs badly and cause pain. I said it as politely as I could and boy did he take it the wrong way. I now know why I hesitate saying it to other barbers. He said "did I bump your head or something?". I said "well no, I just thought...". He said he needed to do it that way to cut the hair or something. It ended awkwardly. A bit later he was about to cut off the entire side burn very high up and I had to stop him. He said I have to cut the hair here as it's very thin. He then did this thing where he cleared his throat and gathered his composure before he continued, looking like it took all the patience in the world for him to keep calm. He then went over to change the music and took his time. A bit later when he moved towards the counter he hit his hip into my elbow without apologising. When he was brushing of the loose hair at the end he brushed into my eyes more than he needed to... hair doesn't fall there. I had to close my eyes when he did this. Now I could have pictured him doing this anyway, so I was able to tell myself in the moment that he wasn't doing so in order to get back at me. I did at least confront him when paying about what he did at the end. I do believe that you are potentially in a vulnerable position when getting your hair cut, and that it is a lot harder to stand up for yourself when someone is standing behind you and you are restricted in some ways. I think the worst person you can get is someone who's a brilliant barber with a temperament issue. So as well as the temperament issue, they won't like taking instruction or correction seeing as they're good. They often try and give you the haircut they'd want want themselves. This was a lesson I thought I'd already learned. I remember being in the queue at one barber before and leaving somebody go ahead of me as the next barber that became free looked very macho looking and seemed like he could possible have an attitude problem. It's not that I can't stand up for myself it's just that I like to relax when I'm getting my hair cut.

•A woman who used to be a friend of my mother's who I hadn't seen in years outside a church after a confirmation or something, and says something like "oh you've gotten so tall" and starts touching my cheek in front of the others I was talking to. I was 21! I didn't know what had just happened.

•A manager at work used to applaud good work in a weird way. He'd try grab the person on the shoulder as he'd say "turn around". Then he'd pat them on the back and say well done. One time this manager brought me down an aisle to show me something and after doing so when he went to walk away, he acted as if he was about to walk right through me. Being caught off guard I moved back and after he stopped briefly he then walked on. I found this very offensive. Another time I saw him grab a walkie-talkie off someone's waist. Technically he didn't touch them when he did it but it didn't look good. After leaving that company and gathering my thoughts on all I'd seen him do to other staff, I put in a complaint about him. He's no longer in charge at the place, whether it have anything to do with me or not I don't know.

•Another time I remember my auntie (different one) talking to my father in her house when my cousin was sitting on a high stool in the kitchen. As she was talking, she put her hand on my cousin's knee and sort of leaned on it as if he was a piece of furniture. She leaned on him for about 10 seconds and he didn't look very comfortable.

•Of course there may be no touching involved at all. Some of you may have seen this movie. Now I'm sure someone who isn't too street smart might just say to themselves "who he'd just leaning on the wall, he's not doing anything wrong yet".

•Another thing is if someone pats my chest I mightn't like it too much. I noticed Rory Mcilroy used to do it to Tiger Woods on the 18th green. I'd always cringe when I saw him ding it. Funny that Rory would be telling people how Tiger is his idol and all yet there he is patting him on the chest. Tiger would never pat Rory on the chest.
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Thanks for reading

 

Scene that deals with inappropriate touching

 

Possible inappropriate touching at 30:26... would like to hear your views?

 

That sort of thing is horrible and should never happen.
I think that physical contact is both about you and the other person involved. Particularly whether it is the other persons normal way of expressing him or herself in social situations, rather than singled out for you.
At the start of my 37 years working with Richard Attenborough, his customary hug when something turned out better than expected seemed a bit strange. But I soon realised that it was just demonstrative nature.

 

Ya, duh

duh... where are you going with this?

Jesus Christ, we're talking about a scenario where it IS being singled out at somebody! So why make unnecessary reference to a situation where such behaviour isn't targeted at just one person? If the boss never behaved like that towards this person before, then it obviously is deliberate.

Even if it was their "normal way of expressing themselves", it still wouldn't be appropriate. If that was my normal way of expressing myself, it wouldn't be long before someone would get cross with me, or perhaps hit me a wallop. You sound like the sort of person who downplays such inappropriate behaviour.

Do you think he might have been offended if you asked him to stop doing it.

 

There's been a few times where something like this has happened to me. As far back as I remember when I was 19 years old, I was at a concert and these drunk fellows we're touching my back and try to feel me up. I've always been the one that never said anything, but I do remember turning around and giving them a look. Another time, as I was working at Mcdonald's a guy put his hand on my ass and it was a coworkers. I ended up telling upper management about this, I ended up getting fired because they simply didn't want to deal with something like that. Lastly at Walmart, I also got sexually harassed.

So I completely get where you're coming from. Those were a few examples that happened to me and each time I didn't feel comfortable at all. I'm getting better at standing up for myself though and I don't think a man or woman should tolerate this from anyone.

 

Sorry to hear you got fired. What excuse did management use? And how did that guy go about touching your ass?