Day of Rage on Wall Street! Protesters Occupy Brooklyn Bridge!

I just got this in my email;

 

Im discussing it. Im saying this is just the resurfacing protest to a problem as old as the earth itself. The solution is to change human nature. Discuss with me on how to do that.

Other than that you can regulate corporations/business, make politicians work for minimum wage, ban campaign donations from any source, crush teachers unions, police unions, and other unions that are made for jobs of the state, and redistribute the tax money used previously for politicians on them, and put back in place unions for privately owned jobs. End the wars and occupations and spend that money on education/healthcare/infrastructure. Then somehow end the dependence on oil. That would be a start. But still it does not change human nature. The new system will be exploited eventually.

 

It has been dicussed, with many different points of view.... you either chose to ignore them, not read them, or discounted them in your rush to post your proclamation that this was all pointless.

 

Wtf are you talking about? In our whole conversation on this thread you havent even given one point. Youre just pulling shit out of your ass like "this is about people changing" and then going back to the same shit that im just discrediting this as pointless. Youre basically just trolling me to get me off this thread or to get other people to jump on the train with you and gang up on me because im not all for the protesting itself. I never saw in the name of this thread that I HAD to support it.

What im saying is that the entire movement is overlooking human nature. So even if they do succeed, if they dont fix the greedy people issue, it then in fact is pointless because someone will come back again and it will start all over.

Youre just being a dick because someone disagrees with you, like Rat does. You havent said a single thing to me that actually discredits me.

 

Okay, so where are your brilliant points? Youre just discrediting me by saying simply im wrong, and that basically im assinine and thats it, youre not discussing a thing.

Youre just saying "im right, youre wrong". Youre not even telling me how.

So answer my question, quit avoiding it. How do you change human nature itself?

 

Please, just drop this. Frankly corporate greed and avarice isn't going to be swayed by a protest that the corporate run media is going to discredit and mischaracterize anyway but it doesn't make the protest pointless as long as there are eloquent and vocal protesters out there whose message may be lost on bankers but it still can resonate with the general public. There are some very good points being made- but the power to effect change isn't going to rest with government it must originate with the very people who patronize the big banks and corporations that are exploiting the system that currently rewards greed. When the big and arrogant bankers and corporate CEOs start seeing their bottom lines diminish then they might just start paying attention.

I think that assuming the objectives of these protests are to send a message directly to the power brokers is oversimplifying it. Clearly they are not going to heed anything until it is worth their while to- and they only means of measuring worth to them is through their bottom lines and while protests will likely not affect that directly they can draw popular attention to some of the core issues and entities most culpable in where things are today- economically and socially. The protests are potential means by which the general public can be educated if the information can reach main Street by means other than the corporate owned media. I would wager that if the scale of corruption were made clear and undeniable then there would be far larger demonstrations and much less participation in the game that funds the addictions to power and money.

Highlighting the pointlessness of it only fuels apathy which is the greatest weapon in the oligarch's arsenal.

 

No, I am saying that this conversation has been going on for 39 pages, and these issues have been part of the conversation. If you wish to join in the conversation, then read through the thread and join the conversation...

What you did, and continue to do is proclaim that its all going to do nothing.

The change that you think has to be enforced on others in order for this to work, is happening. That is why people are gathering and protesting.

While you keep repeating your calls for answers as to how we are going to change the people, you ignore that it is happening without you as you sit back and whine about how it will never happen.

 

^^^I edited one word^^^

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/10/13/occupy-wall-street-brookfield.html

 

Hopefully people continue to show up, and maybe find another way to keep the occupation going. Gotta say, I don't understand how a law against a tent on a sidewalk (not in the park) could even be legal, if it's not obstructing anything. Land of the free for ya :2thumbsup:

 

Well... there is always the C.H.U.D option.... take to the tunnels... lol

 

It would throw things, and make this SRS bsnss, if a cool company or organization offered the movement housing near wallstreet.

But THAT won't happen.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/10/13/us.occupy.wall.street/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

I don't think he says that, he just wonders how you change human nature itself.
You say ppl are or have already changed. I just think they have woken up and maybe some have changed but it's not the bankers or ppl filling their pockets at Wallstreet who have changed. Also how many ppl on the streets have really changed their habbits or do they still bring their money to their banks, use their creditcards etc etc. Corps and Banks are still making money of ppl on the streets.
I support the protests and think change can/will come but it will take a worldwide mentality change to be really succesfull. All the ppl at the top of the money making industry are like wolves, they have their wolvepacks, they protect their territories. You need to take them down by replacing them cause they won't go by themselves. Also money (and the power that comes with it)is addictive. So if you replace the current wolves for "normal" ppl who says that with all the money, they don't turn into wolves eventually (Which is part of human nature).
I still think change can happen and that the demonstrations are not pointless but you need change across the whole area. That means the way Corps work and act, including the ppl that are the Corps. A lot of things can probably be done by laws, regulations, financial structures. However the tough part will be how to change human nature itself, because there will always be wolves (just like their will always be leeches). Which brings us back to the original question: how do you change human nature itself.

My answer would be: you can't or it will take atleast a very very long time because nature doesn't have a habbit of making quick changes. So the only way to succeed is to contain the wolves. And you contain them by letting them know they are being watched and you have to discipline them like dogs if they get out of line (basically what Anonymous is doing right now). And that is the change i think is happening now. ppl are finally waking up and seeing the dogs are out of line. Now all we need is a way to discipline them (preferably in a non violent way) and keep them in line. That will bring real change.

 

Word is that Mayor Bloomberg "folded".

There were 2000 protesters this morning. The sanitation company did not come and the occupiers were not evicted from the park.

 

:hurray:

 

I just heard a recorded statement from Bloomberg in which he said the sanitation company received calls from many elected officials and that is the reason they did not go to the Liberty Park this morning.

Edit: Tom is correct. I should have said that I heard the recording of Bloomberg saying that the calls went to Brookfield, the park owners.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/10/14/wall-street-.html

 

As to the human nature debate, the attempt to ameliorate the dark side of human nature is reflected in the laws enacted to restrain such and in the main,works fairly well. To make basic changes in the way humans are subject to the one quality --greed--that is most harmfull to the majority of people and the earth itself, those that have the power have to be brought to heel by laws enacted to control them by first taking money--all money--out of elections. Make ideas,not money count. Most of the money goes to radio and TV and needs to be changed to a system where a schedule for political speech is adopted and is free to those that have qualified for office. If,as the old saying goes-"the people own the airwaves" then this could arise as an ad hoc issue by forcing the media to accept this change, if the right politicians were elected. This would be a start to ridding ourselves of the" I pay you-you vote how I want" situation we now have with paid lackeys "representing" us with the thousands of attendant lobbyists that represent corporate interests spreading the cash around.

Ok,I could go on about all the changes that need to happen within the political system-I and several others have done this on a regular basis here for years--but I won't. On to the human nature question=we are not born with any particular propensity to employ outrageous greed. Or any other state of mind except the natural desire for food ,warmth and love. Greed is learned behaviour. Children can be molded into any mind set ,as they are like blank slates when born. So I believe that if the right political situation existed that would be amenable to teaching and guiding them to care about the issues that matter-to love and care for the earth and ALL their fellow humans--and if the idea that the excess greed and accumulation of wealth could be seen as the immoral and dangerous disease that it has become--and would be inculcated as early in their lives as possible in and out of school--and if results could be seen(which I'm sure they would) then with time--basic human nature could be changed much for the better. Forced evolution in action.

I hope these protests can somehow do some political good,for that's where it matters. We can see that the powers that be will sic their paid dicks on citizens that are gathering, as per the constitution ,with no regard for any message they have that does not resonate with those for whom the status quo continues to enrich. The constitutuion means nothing to them. The beatings,the jailings,the media control--this is not new. It gets complicated just talking about the changes needed. I know one thing for certain--the dicks can always come up with reasons/laws for busting heads and de-legitimizing common citizen action. Or I should say-reaction. THIRD PARTY--NOW.

 

CNN has live video up of the park now.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/cvplive/cvpstream3

That should bother people more then when they were ignoring the protests...

What is it that they expect to happen in the next couple of days that warrants a camera, when they haven't so far?

Perhaps its just because tomorrow is 'the day' to start in more places, but that doesn't really seem to be likely to me...

I've been thinking about the idea of a third party (or another party other places then the US....)

The biggest problem with that idea is that the same reason obama failed will be the same reason another party will fail.

Let's just imagine for a moment that the movement gains momentum and a new party is formed out of it.

Even if it were to get voted in with an overwhelming landslide, the moment it gained power, the same people who have control of the majority of the money (the 1%), change their investing startegy in order to push the country into financial collapse...

Why would they do that you ask? Look around at the markets... read up on right wing investors and see what they have been doing for the last couple of years...

Sure, they'll lose some money, but boy, will they ever show those lefties who should be in charge... and the money they will make when they make it clear only their side can be in control will more then make up for it.

That new party... will be crushed in one term without making any significant changes to the system.

This is not to shoot down the idea of a new party... just pointing out that injecting a new party into the current system, will not change anything...

There must be a solid break between the old and the new. The old cannot (call it will not, if you wish), allow power to be taken away like this from them, in fact, stopping that from happening is exactly how they got to where they are... Does anyone really think it matters to them if they are fighting against other investors, governments or the people themselves? Their intent is to accumulate wealth and power, damn the consequences...

A lot of people have been suggesting a lot of things that need to be done... Some of them good ideas, some bad, some really whacked out, and some not even related to reality...

None of them will work if they don't address the basic issues of inequality.

To me, the single biggest factor in fostering that inequality, is corporations, and the fact that there is nobody in charge who is legally responsible for the corporations actions. Change anything you want... as long as corporations exist as they do today (seperation of liabilty and actions from people), this problem will crop back up over and over.

There are factors that are tied into that... such as politicians being bought off and working for the purchaser... That can only be stopped by having an open and transparent political system... In otherwords, if you choose to enter the political world, you give up your right to privacy. If there is any aspect of their life that is hidden, money will find a way to corrupt it. When someone on the street buys them a coffee, we (the people) should know about it, especially if a flight half way around the world and a weekend suite was included with the coffee...

Is that a lot to ask of someone? Of course it is... Is it too much? Not at all, if a person doesn't want to be in that position, then they should choose to get involved in politics.

When the politicians very livlihood is tied to the well being of the lowert member of their constituency, then you will see politicians who are working for the people.

Opinion based values in terms of investments, and disparate currencies must be eliminated. The financial world itself must become transparent and based on reality, and not the whims (or machinations) of investors, big or small.