Datura

It only has slight effects by itself? That's because you only smoke a little bit at a time right? I'm thinking a larger dose would give much more than a slight effect .

Interesting neuro-chemical explanation on how mixing datura with tobacco will bring the mysticism out. But as far as the subjective effects go how is it different from the datura by itself. What exactly does the tobacco psychologically do to make the trip more spiritual and mystical? Name some of the additional effects. Tobacco isn't usually considered an entheogen though it has been used in native american shamanism (perhaps it was mixed with datura too?). Which would be more spiritual/mystical or more trippy....mixing the tobacco with the datura and smoking it or just smoking a little higher dose of datura?

 

I don't know too much about this, other then the fact that multiple people have ended up in the hospital from it, but isn't the problem with it the fact that each leaf has a different amount of active substance compared to the next, making it impossible to take a "safe" dose?

 

when you smoke it compared to eating it, its like smoking tobacco compared to eating tobacco. you'll die from eating tobacco, like you can die from eating datura. once the leaves are dry, they arent as poisonous, and then burning it destroys more of the alkaloids so only a little bit of it reaches you. when i smoke it, i smoke about the same amount of material as anything else, besides tobacco. i cant smoke much tobacco at once, i'll get sick. smoking datura doesnt make me sick. let me put it this way, when mixing it with tobacco, i put less tobacco than datura to avoid negative side effects. you wont get a "trip" from smoking it. i like smoking all kinds of plants, to me its like inhaling some of its spirit. smoking them both at once is more spiritual to me because the two are happier when they can play with each other. you feeling me what im saying here? alone, i dont consider either to be very mystical or spiritual because they arent a complete entity withought the other. this is just what i believe. and as for what u4ia said, thats kinda why i say its safe to smoke it. any effects would be felt a lot sooner and you can stop if you think your going to far. the seeds are horrible to smoke though, they burn like crap.

 

watchu know about grandfather tobacco?

one of the most sacred plants in this hemisphere. just because you choose to abuse it doesn't mean its not sacred to those of us who respect it.

 

i dont abuse tobacco. i just dont think its "sacred" by itself. its too addictive to be sacred in my book. where do you get that i abuse it?

 

If tobacco is an acetylcholine agonist and datura an antagonist, wouldn't they just cancel each other out kind of? or the datura would over poewr the tobacco.

 

Datura is for the experienced shamans. It grows all over my town too. From what info I have gathered are. That it is a very long high 24hrs+. That visons are more realistic. 10 seeds is 1 dose. I would extract them like HBWRS or MGS though. A tea from 1 flower is 1 dose. And I dont mean doses like acid, Im talking about a full dose. The leaves like the other guys have said are dried and used to smoke.

 

i dont use it too get high. and too the guy that said the cancel out thing, thats exactly it. thats why i mix them. but no, the datura doesnt overpower the tobacco, its actually the other way around, which is why i use less tobacco. they dont really cancel each other out, because they work on different acetylcholine receptors, but thats why i started mixing them in the first place. its interesting to me that theyre both related, botony wise, and they are both deadly, if ingested, but together in a smoke, they stop each other from being to violent. i smoke it for the same reason someone smokes anything, well besides weed, to just relax and meditate so to say, you know, gather my thoughts, take a break from the day. i dont try to get "psychedelic" effects from it.

edit: one flower is not one dose. you dont get "doses" with datura. and like i said to the other guy, doing an extract on datura is just creating a concentrated poison. i mean, if your a beast, by all means do it. but you cant measure it out like that. and ten seeds will not make you trip, if thats what your looking for, but it is a good starting point if your gunna go down that road. i just stick to smoking it and occasionally sipping a light tea of it. a very light tea.

 

tobacco is sacred by itself to me and other people who understand plant consciousness. the way i work with tobacco is in a singado, not through smoking. even though by itself it is strong, i adhere to tradition and take a singado before every san pedro ritual. i also do not use the american strain of tobacco (n. tobaccum) i use nicotina rustica. tobaqueros in the amazon work with rustica and other tobacco relatives that grow native to the area. if you look at the mayan statue of Xochipilli (prince of flowers) the four most sacred flowers are there, and tobacco is one of them.

 

u can die..
and the active chemical is: scopolamine
i had experienced brugmansia 4 times.. ask me if u want my opinion

 

Moon, you smoke all sorts of plants...have you done any research into the damage it could be doing to your lungs?

Just wondering, not being condescending...I am asking a genuine question.

 

yeah. most plants do the same amount of damage to your lungs as any other. i may smoke a lot of different kinds of plants, but the frequency at which i smoke them is not as much as the typical tobacco or pot head. i actually drink a lot more than anything else.

to omacatl, i understand where your coming from. and if you understood plant consciousness, which i also believe in, youd understand what im saying. to me, the two are opposite sides of the same consciousness. i do understand how non american tobacco could be more sacred than american, i know whats up. im just saying, by themselves, i dont consider either to be as sacred as the combination. i think smoking or ingesting any plant that has chemicals which are related to the neurotramsmitters and shit in our brains, is like introducing their "brains," so to say, nuerochemistry into ours for a little while.

 

Are you positive that smoking random plants is just as safe as other plants? Especially plants that have been dried and so forth to make the smoke less harsh?

Have you researched what you are doing to your lungs by inhaling various plants? Because it's doubtful that research has been done on the plants that you are smoking, since you smoke basically anything that grows.

 

obviously different plants will be slightly different. but for the most part, your combusting hydrocarbons and chlorophylls.

 

And for people who don't study plants that means?

It's been proven that smoking Cannabis is NOT the best thing for your lungs, so I don't have any idea what kind of argument you are trying to make.

 

yes.... smoking anything is bad for you. i'm sure they are wondering what kind of argument you are making just the same.

besides, anything you can pluck off a bush and smoke is going to be better than those damn industrial nuclear waste sticks that americans call 'cigarettes'.

 

yeah i was kinda wondering what point he was making. we all already know smoking things, anything, is bad for your lungs. are you trying to deter people away from smoking plants? i dont think we were making an argument about smoking plants, just providing you with an answer to a question you asked. chlorophyll's are the things in plants that make them green, in laymens terms, and it itslef is a hydrocarbon. i was into making smoking blends for a while and did a lot of studying about different kinds of plants that people have smoked and for what reseans, its not like i just pick random plants. if your not into smoking, which it seems like your not, then quit player hating on us.

who was i in a convo with about tobacco? was it you omacatl? now if i could grow and have my own tobacco plant growing next to a datura plant, that would be bad ass. that would be the ultimate in sacredness i think. it woulndt be fucked over by the government and it would be like my baby, like my morning glory plant was. nothing better than smoking your babies. cause then i'd be able to really try tobacco for what it is.

 

I am just wondering if certain plants could have really negative reactions on your lungs, and you have no idea what you could be doing to your lungs.

That is all I was getting it...I am not saying you are stupid or retarded for doing it, nor am I saying that I think you are killing your lungs...I was just wondering since there probably isn't very many studies on the health risks of smoking various plants, if it could be doing damage that you don't know about. Plants can have tons of alkaloids that you most people might not even know about...who knows what kind of damage that could do.

You know your plants though, so if everything is safe, then props to you. I was just wondering if you think it could be possible if something you are smoking could seriously be damaging your lungs/body, and you have no idea since there is no research on it.