DANGEROUS "Holy Roller" mentality

KD23:

Agreed.

These days, what truly constitutes a "sin"?

Perhaps "wrongoing" would be a better terminology?

Common sense would dictate, that, we should not (MUST not) kill, rape, steal, etc.)

But what about "sins of the flesh"?

As men, we all know that you cannot deny that lust is within us all (though some would totally disagree)

IMHO, I think the "key" to it all is just living your life as a decent human being; what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom is N O ONE else's business, and that includes the Church (or, for that matter, ANY organized religion)..................

 

Fornication is a sin; lust is considered to be one of the seven deadly sins. Organized religions say what a sin is and what isn't a sin. There's the whole age of consent thing and consenting adults can pretty much do what they want as long as consent has been given and what happens behind closed doors stays behind closed doors. I won't tell if you won't and it's only illegal if you get caught; got that one from a USAF Master Sergeant who used to give us safety briefings before we went out for the weekend - and with the admonishment to not get caught - but it's applicable and somewhat germane to the conversation.

What constitutes a decent human being? I'd like to think that I'm a decent human being even if I am bisexual - and one who still thinks that fornication is a lot of fun. Now, some would say that this wouldn't make me a decent human being so is the notion of a decent human being eye of the beholder stuff? The sins of the flesh are... delicious; try it - you might like it.

 

KD23:

Another EXCELLENT response, my friend!

 

Interesting thought.........

IF thoughts of m/m sex are supposed to be so deeply rooted in evil, and such an affront to the Church (any church) then WHY were these "feelings" instilled in us, before we were even born?

Then, too, think of the "straight" guys that would (literally) swear on a stack of Bibles that that they NEVER would have sex with another male........that is.....until curiousity, lust, and, and, perhaps, long-latent sexual feelings finally made themselves known, and rose to the surface......

 

As I'd come to understand some stuff, religion needed to rid us of our baser instincts, i.e., having sex just for the hell of it when it was clear that we were not reproducing at a rate that would ensure the survival of our species. So, homosexual sex had to go and the best way to take care of that was to declare it a sin and one punishable by death. The Old Testament, which outline biblical law, made sure that the law was put out there along with the right way to do things and totally banishing anything that looked like contraception and that included oral sex, masturbation and, in more modern times, condoms and birth control pills.

When I dug down deep and learned these things, I was incredulous to think that all this homophobic hatred, the sin- of fornication, and much of our social norms had to do with... making babies. Oh, it was okay for a man to have many wives because more wives equaled more children to be born and, yeah, male children were preferred over female children. While religion, in those very early days, managed to get control over people, other cultures weren't buying into Christianity all that much or religion at all and as evidenced by cultures where homosexuality wasn't considered a problem and grown men were allowed to take a young boy under their wing... and into their bed - and Christianity worked hard to make it go away wherever they found it.

So, I come into the world and get to an age where I can understand what I'm being told about (a) not having sex and (b) don't even think about having sex with boys because it's evil and if you do, God will come down from heaven and kill you. I didn't go looking for dicks but one found me and, welp, for me, the rest is history and on one hand, I can see how and why religion needed to put the kibosh on homosexual sex and the only way they could make us fear homosexuality was to not only promise death to anyone caught having sex this way but delivering on that promise and putting anyone to death who was having sex that wasn't making babies. I learned that as hard as religions tried to eradicate homosexuality, it failed to do so and utterly so... and it continued to fail and continues to fail to this very day.

All of the homosexuals in the world can't possibly be wrong. Religion says that they are, and our social norms are based on our religious beliefs and... homo- and bisexuality continues to flourish because religion, even with its promise of death as a punishment - still can't trump human nature. We are biologically predisposed to be sexually attractive to each other and I've read some stuff that suggests that heterosexuality is actually abnormal behavior for humans which, if they're right, would also explain why religion has been trying to squash any sex or sexuality that does not conform to the way they want us to be doing things.

Many a straight guy has said, "Never!" and wound up busting a nut in my mouth or in my ass and/or have gotten me to bust a nut in their mouth or their ass and the lesson to be learned is to never say never and, as I found, some guys do wake up one day and decide that today's a good day to suck a dick - even if they have no idea why they want and need to. Or the many guys who sucked my dick for their first experience and swallowed my cum - and said that doing it felt right and normal and did I know why it felt that way?

I did. It felt normal because it is normal - but our socioreligious norms continues to say that it isn't but, okay, if you're telling me that having sex is normal and even healthy, um, wouldn't that include me having sex with guys, too, and not just women and being able to enjoy sex with both? I say it does and so does a slew of bi- and homosexual men and women... and more men and women are finding out every day that religion hasn't been telling the truth and that it's been in our nature to be sexually diverse and fluid.

Does this answer your questions? No one has to believe me - do what I did and go digging for the truth.

 

KD23:

An EXCELLENT, OUTSTANDING, and VERY INSIGHTFUL post!

Double standards?

A STRAIGHT male who has numerous FEMALE partners is considered a "stud".

A GAY or BISEXUAL man who had multiple MALE partners is an ABOMBINATION!

It's OK for a straight male to have multiple female partners, BUT, a WOMAN who has multiple partners is a "slut", a "whore", a "bimbo", or a "chippy".

Double standards?

For certain.

When I was working in New York, the overall general consensus amomg many of the guys was that "a REAL man screws as many women as he can, whether he is married or not."

Straight married guys bragged about their affairs like it was a badge of honor!

And, when gay or bisexual men were "discussed" (if at all) rest assured it was to talk about "fags", "queers", "half-fags", etc........damn, I HATE labels!

I still recall well one older (and VERY obnoxious) "big shot" who was the pillar of his church, a "fine, upstanding family man" who blew HUGE bundles on high-priced call girls like there was no tomorrow, but was VERY bigoted and homophobic regarding gays/bisexual men.

This guy turned my stomach; talk about triumph of ignorance and bigotry!

Ahhh, well, ignorance is indeed bliss.......................

 

The one point you make had a true reason for banishing anything that prohibited the making of more people. Strangely enough that reason was for war. Wars lasted decades if not centuries. The only way to fight a war was with hoards of men killing each other. How to make warriors was to impregnate women. Thus the leaders had harams of women bearing children, hopefully males, to become warriors. King Solomon with his some 600 wives could, theoretically, create 600 warriors a year. Many other men in his kingdom had many wives adding to the warrior base. Women were plentiful as half the babies born were women and women were not warriors killed at war. So cum was not to be wasted for the survival and good of the nation.

Today, war is fought tremendously different and lasts a much shorter time period. You don't need hoards of men beating each other over the head with clubs. And now, women are becoming deeply involved in running nations and fighting wars right alongside men. Even nations in recent times have placed restrictions of population growth. With the need for making warriors going by the wayside the survival of a nation depends on the ability to support, feed, that nation. I believe this is subtly undermining the OT teachings against sex and how or who one does sex with. If you don't need babies to go fight wars nobody gives a fuck if you want to jack off or suck other cocks.

As this and many other crazy things religion spouts become proven incorrect and contradictory the Holy Rollers lose their credibility and people turn their interests to other things. This is why church attendance is slowly diminishing every year, every decade. It just isn't needed to have a fun and fulfilling life.

 

Any male with numerous female partners is called a dog; I haven't heard such guys called studs since the 1970s but agree that there was a time when society patted horn-dog guys on the back for spreading their seed to multiple women while totally slut-shaming the shit out of women who were looking to get all the cock and cum they could get their hands, mouth, pussy, and asshole on. Our social norms created the double standards and, again, those norms are based on religious beliefs.

Homosexuals are an abomination... which is a lie but when you're trying to control what everyone else is doing, you have to get your smear campaign up and running. So, homosexual men are unholy, immoral sons-of-bitches who deserve to die; lesbians are man-hating cunts who, um, who kinda get a pass on their homosexuality because we didn't treat women all that well in those early times (and not that we treat them any better today). So, if "Kathy" and "Alice," who are friends, are at Kathy's place having lunch and sharing a bottle of wine and, um, by chance, purpose, or plain old human need, they wind up in bed together, not many people are going to blame them for it, and they get a pass if they're still having sex with men. I heard a bisexual woman say that as much as she liked men and dick, sometimes, she needed a break that only a woman and pussy can provide and... it made sense to me.

Let "Albert" and "Jerry" take down a couple of six-packs, get horny, and decide to go at each other even though they're both married... and get out the tar and feathers. Now they're fudge-packing faggots who (a) don't like women and (b) are faking like they're straight, so on and so forth and I'm sure we've all heard the bullshit and are aware that we live in a society that continues to not only believe the bullshit but keeps promoting it as a de facto fact of life... when being totally heterosexual is only one aspect of things. All the bi- and homosexuals in the world cannot be wrong - it just isn't possible unless there's something in place - religion - that says that anyone who isn't heterosexual is wrong and has to be punished for their sin, which gets interesting when holy rollers are quick to point out that Jesus (or his facsimile) died on the cross so that our sins would be forgiven... so, what, that doesn't include homosexuals?

When you start to see the flaws in the way we've been looking at sex and sexuality over all this time, you find that believing in what religion has been beating us over the head with over all this time doesn't make a lot of sense and, as straightma1e accurately said, religion loses its credibility and people do turn their interests to other things like, oh, hmm, not being heterosexual and, yes, organized religion is pretty much shitting its pants because church attendance is in decline. I have always felt that religion has always relied on its ability to control us, from what we do to what and how we think and I used to wonder what would happen if people started walking away from religion because they saw the same flaws in it that I was seeing - and how could religion get us back under its control.

Promising that we're gonna die and go to hell doesn't work the way it used to; you cannot say that we should live under the tenets of the New Testament while beating everyone over the head with the Old Testament and, oh, yeah, the really scary end of the bible, Revelations. You should never, ever, underestimate the power of belief but a lot of people have stopped believing in what religion has to say about... anything so when confronted by holy rollers, whatever they're saying goes in one ear and out the other or they get invited to do something with themselves that might be anatomically impossible...

 

KD23:

A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EXCELLENT response, and, man, do you ever MAKE SENSE!!!!!!!

Tell it like it is, brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It is my contention that if you understand that holy rollers are stuck in an archaic belief system that has little relevance in the here and now, what makes them dangerous? Yes, religious extremists are never to be taken lightly but I've never met such a person... but I have met a lot of holy rollers and, yeah, sometimes, they're hilarious in their belief and also quite sad, too, because I know that they firmly believe in something that, forever and ever, isn't the whole truth of things and our existence.

Like, every religion has a "mandate" to convert others to their belief and if you choose not to be converted, well, for some religions, that's a problem, makes you a heathen or an infidel and someone who should be put to death because you won't convert to a belief system that has not changed since it came into existence or you'll die and go to hell/purgatory for your lack of belief. Just living from one moment to the next is filled with enough shit one has to deal with and having religious fervor being shoved in their face isn't helping and, okay, look - just because you believe doesn't meant that I have to... or that I want to. I used to believe... until I found reason not to. I was raised to believe but like I say - I got grounded and punished a lot when I was younger because I dared to question that which should never be questioned.

Like, if homosexuals are evil, why are there so many homosexuals and how come I know some gay folks who don't appear, feel, or sound like they're evil? Yeah, go ask a minister this question when you're a young kid in the early 1960s and find out what's gonna happen next. Or where did all the people come from if there was only Adam, Eve and Cain, who got banished for killing his brother? That one got me grounded for a month and I had to ask myself why I got grounded when both of my parents impressed upon me that if I wanted to know something, it was okay to ask questions.

Except, there are some things that should not be questioned... like religion. They "set it up" so that it's self-fulfilling; you can't prove or disprove anything that religion teaches and preaches. I have sex with guys... but does that really make me a horrible person? Ditto for having been a gleeful fornicator; you're telling me that I can only have sex with women and then, only under certain conditions like being married - and yu cannot and should not ever have sex before you're married... but people do it all of the time and... tell me Mr. and Ms. Holy Roller, how does that really work, hmm?

I found that once you get a good idea of how human nature can be religion falls flat on its face; it's flaws and purpose to control us are exposed; it has not changed since its inception. We even know how to make babies without any sex taking place and like I've already said, you're not going to tell me that the only good and healthy sex is heterosexual sex.

 

KD23:

Tell it like it is......."The truth shall set you free!"

"Truth crushed to the Earth shall rise again!"

 

Shit, those serious gun nuts are more dangerous than holy rollers.

 

Nowadays, you are (literally) taking your life into your hands when you board a bus or a train in the big cities; it seems everyone and his brother is armed with a gun (or a knife)

EVen going out for a stroll, or going to the neighborhood store can result in your becoming a statistic, in too many areas.

Look at all all the horrific mass shootings (parades, schools, shopping malls, etc) that have been taking place over the course of the past several years, with no end in sight.

You have no idea if your next-door neighber has an arsenal in his basement that would put the National Guard to shame.

A 1975 episode of "Good Times", (one dealing with gun violence) had James exclaiming:

"Ain't NOTHIN' going to change unless these politicians get some backbone!"

Man, and that was nearly 50 years ago.........sad.

Indeed, "holy rollers" and religious fanatics are harmless, compared to the mass violence caused by illegal firearms these days.

Getting back to the "holy rollers"........

If only they preached as strongly against gun violence as they do against homosexuality and assorted other "sins of the flesh"......................

 

Bringing the fire and brimstone hasn't done much where making and keeping people heterosexual is concerned, has it? I've been preached to and preached at and... it changed nothing because chances were good that after all of this, I went to have sex with a guy or to indulge in other sins of the flesh with women - and my wife, of course. Hell, yeah, I'm a sinner and I've had lots of fun sinning my cute ass off because if there is a heaven or a hell -
and I don't believe there is - then, sure I've got some explaining to do and there's no escaping that.

I'll tell a holy roller in a flat, skinny second that I accept the responsibility of my sexual actions, and I have to be more worried about life right this moment than I do about life everlasting after death... because I'm not dead yet. Go preach to someone else because you're not going to tell me anything that I don't already know.

 

KD23:

Again, very well said.

Quite awhile ago, I had heard that there is no "hell" in the "afterlife"; many, sadly, have their "hell" while on earth.

One a more lighter note, I had that heaven might be like "The Tonight Show", with a perpetual "guest host" (guess the "big man" is too busy!)

Everyone, of course, has their own views and versions of the "afterlife"; then, too, are the often-heated debates on whether or not an afterlife even exists in the first place.

With me, I simply seldom think of it; and, like sex, politics, and religion, it is a subject I would not touch if I were talking to someone "one-on-one" in person.

Best keep your views to yourself; it is a lot more prudent in the long run, especially if they touch on "sensitive" issues.............

 

Holy rollers are not all that known for keeping their religious opinions to themselves. Many years ago, I read this in a book: "Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die to get there..." and I figured there's a lot of truth in that. But sex, politics, and religion are the topics that our social norms say should never be talked about because doing so can invoke a lot of feelings that aren't all that positive; friendships and relationships can be damaged behind talking about these things and I knew a guy who got fired because he couldn't keep his big mouth shut about his political views.

We live in a world that's seriously screwed up...

 

KD23:

Agreed 100%.

Look at how "political correctness" has infilterarrated everything from celebrating our holidays to "whitewashing" American history.

Sure, there was a lot of (TOO much) unfairness, cruelties, and suffering in the history of our nation, BUT, pretending it never existed is NOT the solution.

LEARNING from past injustices, using what we learn to build a better future for ALL Americans.....THAT'S what should be the priority.

Many years back, I used to belong to a Civil War society, that, not surprisingly, is now long defunct.

Too many "sensitive"/"politically correct" issues that had to be treated with kid gloves, if touched upon at all, in later years.

It's all so damn insane and crazy..................

 

.....and, WHATEVER you do, DO NOT discuss ANYTHING related to gay/bisexual issues, UNLESS you know that the party (parties) you are discussing this topic with are on the same "wavelength" as you, opinion-wise.

Me, I'd rather keep silent and let others speak....it's a LOT safer, and, indeed, saves a LOT of grief in the long run..........

 

Political correctness has totally fucked us up as a people. Never realized that by not wanting to offend anyone, you could actually offend someone. As such, I avoid being PC...

 

KD23:

Ditto, here.

I've never been PC, and refuse to start this late in the game.

Most certainly, I do not wish to offend anyone, but, by the same token, I should be able to feel what I feel and believe in what I believe, without having to worry about "rubbing someone the wrong way".

Another bonus of living alone and not having to associate with anyone, except for two or three like-minded "phone friends" is not worrying about souring "friendships".

Back in the day, I greatly enjoyed participating in good, stimulating "bull sessions"; I used to be a pretty good conversationilist.

As I've said, these days, I much prefer to listen while others speak.

And, today, WHATEVER you do, DO NOT discuss POLITICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!