DANGEROUS "Holy Roller" mentality

If Man is supposed to have been "created in His own image and likeness", shouldn't that be enough for the holy-rollin' bigots? (think of it.......NO gay or bi man CHOOSES his sexuality; contrary to the widespread belief of narrow-minded holy-rollers)

Hey, last time I checked, we are ALL God's children, and sexuality means NOTHING to him......after all, WHO created us (straight/gay/bi) in the FIRST place??

Think about it...............

 

Not, at least, if you're Catholic! But "abusers of themselves with mankind" sounds like mutual jerk off.

 

And don't forget being warned that masturbation "will make you go blind"!

The manly art of "self-stimulation" itself can also be a "touchy" (pun not intended!) subject, depending on the piousness/religious beliefs of the person you are talking to...........

 

A bi- or homosexual man might not choose to feel the way he's feeling but he does - and will - choose what he's going to do about those feelings or what he isn't going to do and there's usually a long list of reasons why he's not going to do anything about his feelings and beginning with God saying that it's a sin and those who commit this sin will die and go to hell and, really, being put to death was the "usual punishment" for not doing things the way you were told to do them or God would strike you down from the heavens. Yet, in those instances where death by stoning was indicated, I'm pretty sure that God didn't reach down from the heavens to throw the first stone and, as an up-and-coming child, I had always wondered how and why God would only speak to certain people and telling them what to say and do instead of talking to everyone and... God works in mysterious ways and one shouldn't ask questions about that.

The holy rollers are never able to explain why someone finds themselves being bi or gay except they're obviously sinners and the most evil of men and it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve and so on and so forth and none of this crap answers the question, does it? Having said that, I wish that I had a dollar for every time I've had sex with a guy, it was his first time doing it, and he said that doing whatever we did felt right, normal, and natural to him and, yeah, how come he waited so long to do this. I also wish that I had a dollar for every time I've heard a gay man say that he didn't choose to be gay, that he was born this way, no interest in women, so on and so forth (again) but they, too, have said that when they made the decision to have sex with a guy, it felt right, normal, natural and pretty damned good both physically and emotionally.

I wish that I had a dollar for every time I ran into a guy who was in that terrible crisis of faith because he knows what religion has to say about the way he's thinking and feeling but the need and desire to take the plunge is fucking with him big time and he's not sure if he should or not. And all I can say to him is that, sadly, religion has an agenda and one that's been pushed on every last one of us until we find out that some of what religion preaches against is... bullshit. If you believe in a higher being, all well and good but religion is a whole different critter and many a bi and gay man has said that they "talked to God" and they're okay with the way they are - and into the pool they go because if God didn't mean for them to be this way, they wouldn't be this way.

All those dollars would have added up to quite the tidy sum. The men that I've interacted with - socially and even sexually - have cited religion as the reason why they're not going to do what their feelings and emotions are telling them to do but asking me why I'm not bothered by any of this and I've told them that I believe in God but not in religion which probably didn't help them a whole lot but it's the truth. I've told them that they have to think and decide on what, if anything, they're going to do about the way they feel and, I hate to tell you but the feeling isn't going to go anywhere and it's going to keep messing with you until you do something about it... and then, it's going to mess with you because you're gonna want to do it again.

Some guys let the religious belief trump their intelligence and feelings and that's fine and some guys, obviously, decided to go for it either with me or with a guy they had their eyes on and this, too, is fine because religion tries to suppress human nature and it continues to consistently fail to get rid of this sexual and/or romantic behavior that humans have been displaying for the longest time so all it can do is condemn it and promise death and eternal damnation to anyone who takes this path.

I wanted to know that if God gave us all free will, why would He turn around and kill us for having free will? The holy rollers don't have an answer for this, as it turns out and they like to point out that the bible tells us how God wants us to be and how to live and me asking them, "But is it really free will when you're being told what you can and cannot do?"

Are they dangerous? Only if you believe that they are. You have to be able to understand that they believe in something that is centuries old and hasn't changed over all this time while humans have been changing as individuals and socially and, yes, sexually; you have to understand that they're not wrong in their belief but, yeah, what they believe in is flawed and outdated and despite their warnings of doom, gloom, fire and brimstone, every single day, a man or a woman is discovering that they have... certain feelings that they're not supposed to have and they are confused about what they should do - but they know what they'd better not do because religion makes that clear: Do it and die and be damned for all of eternity.

Every single day, a man or a woman is taking the plunge for the very first time... and wondering why they waited so long to take the plunge or saying that it wasn't as bad as they thought and/or was told or asking, "What was I afraid of?" That's easy to answer: They were afraid of what the holy rollers said would happen if they did this; they were afraid of what the people they care about would say or do if they did this and even knew about how they were thinking and feeling in this regard because they, too, believe what religion has to say about not being heterosexual. The way we have been, here of late, saying how normal and healthy it is to have sex - but we continue to vilify same-sex sex because, again, that's what the holy rollers like to roll on about and it's my understanding that sex is sex and no matter who you're having it with or how you're doing it but, eh, what do I know?

I will tell a holy roller in a flat, skinny second that they do not want to fuck with me about my sexuality because I will ruin their whole day... with some truths that they do not want to hear, and they really don't want to hear how flawed and outdated and stagnant their beliefs are and, oh, yeah, their continued belief hasn't changed a thing about anyone other than themselves and others who continue to believe in this. Take it somewhere else because (a) I've heard it all before and (b) I don't have the patience to listen to it and lost that patience a long time ago and (c) whatever they're going to say isn't going to stop me from being bisexual... because it can't.

It's all dogmatic rhetoric and the real question is... what are you going to believe? What religion teaches or what life has been doing all along?

 

It'll make you go blind and you're going to grow hair on the palms of your hands and other such dumb shit designed to keep us from finding out that we can, in fact, pleasure ourselves and it can feel pretty damned good, too. Except, the holy rollers will tell you that masturbation is a sin and... it never was a sin. It was once considered to be a mental illness and because it was believed that it was a sin and anyone who did this was obviously mentally irregular for indulging in this sin... but it never was a sin. Poor Onan got put to death because, yes, he spilt his seed upon the ground but that was because he did not want to impregnate his dead brother's wife and as was mandated by rule and, yeah, because God said it was okay. He had sex with his former sister-in-law but instead of cumming in her to impregnate her, he spilt upon the ground.

The village elders (or whoever) found out what he'd done when they learned that she wasn't pregnant (and she probably ratted him out about not cumming in her) and he was put to death for disobeying God and not knocking her up and as village law required, which was based on God saying that this had to be done and almost everyone I know, at one time, believed that it was a sin and I still know people who will not masturbate because they believe it's a sin - although the excuse they tend to use is that man is supposed to have sex with a woman and implying that pleasuring himself is a sin. I have wondered if, for those who have taken an oath of celibacy, if masturbation violates that oath since, technically, the only person they're having sex with is themselves. Maybe it does and maybe they believe that it's still a sin, it's gonna make you go blind and grow hair in the most unusual places... and I know that knowing this has never stopped me from masturbating and it's easy to presume that I was told not to do it because it would cause me to "spill my seed upon the ground" and not inside of a girl and where my sperm is supposed to go and the whole baby-making thing that I have believed is at the root of the sexual taboos, sins, and prohibition against anything that will not result in conception.

Once again, you see the power of belief at work and in these things, not necessarily in a good way.

 

Growing up, I was told that there are things that should never be talked about: Politics, religion, and sex so I can understand how a discussion like the one we're having can be... disturbing because beliefs are being questioned and challenged. I can remember a time when I'd do what I was told to do and avoid talking about these things but, yeah, there's really no getting away from it when you interact with other people so you put on your bullet-proof and fire-proof clothes and join in the great debate about which thing is really right: What religion teaches or what human nature can be about.

Those of us who are bi- or homosexual knows that what religion teaches is only one way of things, that's there more to sex and, yes, love and romance than what our social norms have mandated and based upon what religion says we're supposed to do and who we are supposed to do it with. I've had sex with women. Duh. I married a woman, and she bore me three amazing children. Another duh. All the while, I was as bisexual as the day is long even though, you betcha, I wasn't opposed to getting into a guy's underwear or a guy getting into mine because it's sex and, importantly, sex that no woman can provide but above and beyond everything else, because a man introduced me this kind of sex, I found it to my liking and despite what religion had to say because it was human nature that really happened.

A mild crisis of faith because I knew what had happened was wrong but as I've said here many times, I wanted to know how something everyone said was bad and evil could feel so good and then I found the answer and it wasn't via religious teaching. It was sex and sex is supposed to feel good and even if it's sex with another guy. Getting myself into trouble asking questions like why homosexuality is a sin when there are a lot of homosexuals and the answer being some version of, "Because God said so!" or "It's in the bible!" and... that never answers the question, and I'd gladly take the beating and grounding so that I could find the truth that religion didn't want me to know about.

And continuing to have sex with anyone who wanted to and especially if religion said it was a sin and taboo because I knew that human nature had something very different to say about that. It wasn't that I didn't believe in God and Jesus; I didn't believe what religion was telling us to believe and to take it on faith. To me, one of these things couldn't be right and it wasn't human nature that wasn't right. I even had the nerve to ask my pastor where did all the people who were doing all that begetting come from if there was only Adam, Eve, Cain, and Able - and we know that Cain slew Able so, yeah - where did all the other people come from because the bible didn't mention it. I got my ass beaten and grounded for a month for asking this question and not getting an answer was, indeed, an answer unto itself. Later, I'd hear about Lilith and she was the real mother of humanity but, again, there's no mention of her in the bible that I could find.

The bible says what it says. The holy rollers... are rolling because they believe what the bible says and what the preacher man is preaching about. Homosexuality is a sin but, okay, I'm not a homosexual... but I can have sex like I am but to a holy roller, that I also love sex with women doesn't mean anything and I'm just a homosexual faking like I'm straight and... arguing with them is really pointless but it's my opinion that being fearful of them is just as pointless. Dangerous? Yeah, no, not really. More misguided than anything else and, yeah, some of them know the truth and like I do but they continue to roll on just the same.

So let them roll while you handle the business of living your life the way you want and need to.

 

Mega-church Methodist pastor, Rev. Adam Hamilton, one of the major advocates of tolerant approach toward gays and an opponent of biblical literalism, argues that some parts of scripture were applicable to their own time but no longer to ours--e.g., acceptance of slavery and rejection of gays. He uses Jesus's teachings of love and compassion as the interpretive lens to determine which Scriptures are applicable to today: love for God and love for neighbor. Hamilton believes any Biblical teaching that is inconsistent with those two commands is not currently binding upon us. This doesn't mean promiscuity and licentiousness, but it means recognizing that, on the basis of our current understanding of homosexuality, he thinks it's possible to have loving LGBTQ relationships consistent with Christ's teachings. Needless to say, not all of his fellow clergy agree.

 

That's what I mean when I say that religion is outdated. It's been stagnant and unchanging except for how so many people are interpreting the bible and it doesn't seem that anyone really agree on what it says and, importantly, what it really means. Meanwhile, humanity has been on the move, changing and adapting and becoming even more aware of those things that religion still doesn't want us to know anything about - and can't do anything about us knowing except to keep preaching the same old stuff that as you say, no longer applies to us.

I would be surprised if his fellow clergy were to agree with him. We're supposed to live under the tenants of the New Testament, not the Old but when the holy rollers get to rolling, they don't get anywhere near the New Testament and, I guess, believing that rehashing all that doom, gloom, fire and brimstone is going to change anything. It does make me wonder at what point does organized religion admit defeat when it comes to human sexuality...

 

I recall reading quite awhile ago that a favorite "trick" of the holy rollin' evangelists is to take certain passages from the Old Testament and then "rework" them to fit their own narrow-minded, bigoted, hate-mongering crusades.

Ever think of how "love they neighbor" is either swept under the carpet, or changed that the "neighbors" are also all 100% heterosexuals, and anyone who is not is NOT your "neighbor"?

IMHO, I think gay and bi men who live in the "Bible Belt" face, if possible, even a greater level of discrimination and bigotry than those "up North".

All that "fire and brimstone" hellfire preaching, without a doubt, has MORE than screwed up the minds of far too many of the "faithful", not to mention literally terrifying gay and bi men who (understandably) are closeted in that neck of the woods.

Yet another classic example of what I've come to term:"PUB" ("Pure Unadulterated Bullshit").....

 

IMHO, regardingt one's religion, FAR TOO MUCH is made out of one's sexual orientation.

If you are a GOOD person, live a DECENT life, and try to treat others as YOU yourself wish to be treated, isn't THAT what matters MOST, NOT who you are having sex with?

FAR too much emphasis on sexual orientation in the religious sector.....too much obsession.

Are we in Church to worship Him, OR, to gather together and learn to hate each other with good Christian fellowship, and denounce others whose lifestyles might be different than ours?

Think about it..............

 

Thought...........

If Jesus was still walking the Earth today, and he encountered a gay or a bisexual male, would he cast stones at him?

Berate him?

Snub him?

I can see Him embracing the man and saying, "Walk with me, my brother, and be my friend."

Anyhow, THAT'S how I always pictured Him..............

 

AMEN!

 

A number of years back, there was a short-lived prime time show, "THE BOOK OF DANIEL", which starred Aiden Quinn as a minister, who had an "unorthodox" family.

The "ultra-conservatives" howled loud and clear for several reasons, one reason being the minister's son was gay, and, horror of horrors, the minister had one-on-one conversations with Jesus, who often visited him at his church, as though it were simply two friends getting together to discuss life in general as well as personal problems.

A number of "holy rollers" thought it blasphemous (from what I've read) that the minister was "intimate" with Jesus, just as he would have been with another close friend.

Heck, when i was in Catholic school in the 1960s, we were taught that "Jesus is your friend; talk to him about anything, he'll always be there to listen to you and to help you."

That's what WE were taught!

Too, the other issue that some had with this series (pulled after only a few episodes were aired) was that the minister was addicted to pain killers, due to old Vietnam injuries.

This short-lived series was released on dvd some time ago; I purchased the dvd quite awhile back, and, for me, are the minister's one-on-one chats with Him.

Hey, so what's the big deal?

He's SUPPOSED to be our friend......a FRIEND to us ALL!

 

Recall from the old hymn:

"......and He walks with me, and He talks to me, and He tells me I am His own..................."

Personally, I think this is something more of us should realize.............

 

....perhaps many of us should start realizing that not only is Jesus our Savior, but also, our FRIEND.

On a sort of related note, I once read that:

"......Jesus had to have had a sense of humor; otherwise, why did so many people listen to Him?"

We ALL tend to forget that He was once a flesh-and-blood man who walked the face of this Earth, just as well all do............

 

I like to think that a lot of us know that Jesus is our friend. You see, any one of us who turns his back on religion isn't turning their back on God or Jesus and it's a very major difference in things. We can believe in God; we can accept Jesus as our personal savior; we don't have to believe the dogmatic rhetoric coming out of too many pulpits. "Do as we say or die!" is bullshit and so is being told that if you don't believe what they're saying, well, you're gonna die and all that other fire and brimstone stuff.

No, we have not forgotten that He was once flesh and blood like we are; how can you forget it when, if you were made to go to church, it got pounded into your head every Sunday and more days during the week if you went to a holy roller church? You know this; you accept this; you go about the business of living your life being comfortable in your beliefs and to the best of your ability. The best friend to have is the one who doesn't have to keep reminding you that they're your friend but some holy rollers I've encountered would love it if all you ever had on your mind was Jesus and you didn't do anything other than to worship His name and give your all to the church and all that other stuff that also tends to drive people away from the church because who likes to have this constantly beaten into your head?

We know it. We accept it or we don't. We've not forgotten.

 

KD23:

WELL SAID, my friend.......I agree with you 100% all the way!

 

Without a doubt, especially in the more rural areas of the "Bible Belt", things can get pretty bizarre and downright frightening when a minister gets his "flock" worked up into such a religious frenzy, and they began speaking in "tongues".

Then, I've heard of "fire and brimstone" ministers taking live snakes out of a basket, and telling his "flock" how, if they have "faith in the Lord", the snakes will not harm them.......GET REAL, man!

This type of "ol' timey" religion is far more of a "cult" than a "religion"; scary as all hell.

Years back, I read of one male country singer who denounced the "fire and brimstone" preachers, stating: "I can hear the Lord's word just fine without it being shouted at me."

I know that a lot of the revival meetings can also get quite scary as well.

If Jesus represents all that is good, love, compassion, and tolerance, why the need for all the "brimstone theatrics" which, I know, have really messed with a lot of folks' mental well-bieng, which, of course, is NOT what Jesus would wish................

 

It always comes down to this: Are you going to be the person you want to be or are you going to be the person that religion wants you to be? To me, the two things are not the same (but they could be). What I know is that if I was the person religion wantsme to be, I wouldn't be who I am and I love who - and what - I am. I found that I could believe in God and Jesus... even. when I was sucking a guy off or moaning as he fucked me and squirted a load of cum into me and the same when a guy was sucking me or I was shoving my above average and fat dick in and out of his ass... because it's human nature and religion is a man-made construct, and I learned which thing to believe in that wasn't God or Jesus and it wasn't religion.

You can't be a deacon in our church and praising the Lord on Sunday when last night, you were sucking the cum out of me and like your very life depended on it. You just can't or, to be real, you shouldn't. And then, you're blowing me (and rather expertly) and telling me before the fact that God says that it's okay when I know that God said it wasn't but, that's okay because I didn't believe him in the first place - he wanted to suck some dick and I'm just... mean enough to feed him my dick and cum (twice).

It was pure coincidence when, Sunday morning, our pastor was preaching about the sin of homosexuality; the true homosexuals in the congregation were fidgeting where they sat and the deacon kept cutting his eyes in my direction and, I guessed, to see if there was any reaction on my face or whatever the hell he was looking for. What he got to see was me frowning to hear him over their faking the funk... when I knew what he did last night. Did the sermon bother me?

Not one bit. I make no excuses for what I am, and you can try to holy roll me until you run out of breath and... it changes nothing. You can't threaten me with death and damnation because I know that I'm going to die - but if there is a heaven or a hell, er, um, I'm going to be in trouble - but I'm good with that. If nothing else in this regard, I'm being real and genuine - and I know a few holy rollers that I cannot say that about.

Dangerous? Not even.