Crushing The Fine-Tuned Argument

bam!

http://youtu.be/oPICs6YbFtA

 

I really didn't need to watch a 6 minute video to learn that restrictions restrict creativity. I think anyone can come to that conclusion, so I feel a little ripped off here, a little older and a little confused. The creator of this must have had some limiting restrictions themselves, for the comedic approach towards the last 1/3 completely modified whatever seriousness this had into a big joke. IMO.

 

So, god the creator of everything doesnt have the ability to tune anything?


I beg to differ, I have seen some pretty unexplained phenomena of rarity as of late. And hes god, I dont think he really gives a fuck whether or not you think he has a limit to power; something like that.

 

Relaxxx is not posting this on an internet forum to provoke any god. Just his fellow humans

 

lol I did say that like that, not really intentional I suppose. :daisy:

Im just sayin, pretty sure the concept of god is enough to suggest it's a limitless being thata connected to everything.

 

I took the opposite. Like the speech with the Lotus, I got that God could create the universe etc. but with restricted limitations. Then he could fine tune?

 

Maybe it's left open so WE (who are created in It's image after all) can fine tune it to our liking and that is how it supposed to be. The idea that god does not exist just because there are restrictions in this reality is not that convincing

 

http://youtu.be/hKPrBV_PCKs

 

The questions of God's restrictions on creativity of the universe are good questions, however the fine-tuning argument is a fairly modern argument and one which is presented in physics, so I think it is slightly misguided as it's presented in the video.

Fine-tuning does act as 'proof' for God's existence for some theists, often in conjunction with anthropic principles which is addressed more in the second video but many don't use the arguments to support Classical theism and stuff like omnipotence necessarily, it's usually more along the lines of argument for intelligent design.

 

and quite frankly, I don't give a f, that he does not give a f.

 

IT'S A MIRACLE!!!

Aren't miracles just frikin' GREAT!?

That we live in a world where once in a WHILE someone BEATS the ODDS and is SPARED some horrific SUFFERING and that's a MIRACLE!

What a reason to praise God, what a FINE TUNED thing, that sometimes miracles happen, that some times rare events occur. Somedays an abusive dad might not beat his kids, "celebrate your daddy today kiddies, he didn't beat you to a bloody pulp today, yay... what a FINE man".

How fine tuned was the earth for dinosaurs? First plants and then plant eaters ant then carnivores. Sharp tooth meat eaters? Was that "fine tuning"? Then wiping them off the earth with an asteroid. More fine tuning? Life exist as a minuscule film on a wet rock near a fireball isolated by millions of light years of space from anything else and subject to occasional EXTINCTION LEVEL events and immeasurable suffering... is what this film calls a fine tuned universe!?

 

The abundance of life on this wet rock that can thrive and develop here for millenia can be perceived as a frikn miracle. If you take into consideration how dark and cold and empty of life the rest of space seems to be. But even if there would be life on another rock far far away that could be perceived as a miracle as well You seem to have such a one track negative mind where it comes to other people that have an actual use for god(s) and the word miracle that frankly it makes you sound so angry to the point you come across as disturbed...

 

Hey brah, I'm not disturbed, I'm God almighty and I have a plan to reveal myself to these people.

Watch this brah, I'm going to inflict one hundred people with a deadly horrific disease. Then I'll let one live to prove how great and miraculous I am.

Works every time brah, in fact, the more devastation and hardship I slam down on these people, the stronger their faith becomes.

It's great, these tools will make excellent pawns and minions in the great spirit wars I have planned....

Whah Haa ha!
I am the Great DOG 999!!!

 

It's true, the one who sounds most upset about this is the OP himself. Dude get a life and accept other people have more use for god(s) and/or religion than yourself. It is all good.

 

I find the video to be quite interesting. may lack in full ness....but it does give rise to thoughts at least here......
Fine tuning....very interesting concept......
Creating......and I am not just talking about any species perpetuating itself, as all species do, but the act of creating something not needed for survival of the species....art, music, literature, architecture....etc.... this ...the creating such beauty in a hostile world is the god........the god of our souls.......
We create, we fine tune, such as no other animal that we know of.......

 

Sadly, we also have the ability to destroy this entire world as we know it, if we choose to, too.....

 

mmmm, mmmm, yeah....
You can tell I'm just WILD when I start channeling the Dog brah.

I'm here to save you from yourself brah.

 

Just because a guitar is in tune, doesn't mean that everyone will play it flawlessly, it just means the guitar is in tune. You could perhaps think of life forms on earth more as the players rather than being the instrument itself, so if humans are the most accomplished players, they still play out of tune from time to time so to speak.


Fine-tuning arguments are more in the vein of if the Earth were a few degrees further or closer to our Sun, the planet would not be able to support life. A few other examples...

Proper fine-tuning arguments really are not dealing with an omnipresence, omnipotency, omnibenevolent God. These are observations of the universe, which some theists adopt to support their notion of a Creator.

 

i'm pretty sure the only thing unexplaned things prove is that they are unexplaned.
i have no problem with there being more to everything then what we see when we look at it.
i have no problem with the possibility of things lying outside of known science.
my problem is when i see people trying to force what we don't know, to fit what we might want to pretend we do.
even if i'm not always entirely innocent of this myself.
i'm not denying that i have an ego, just accepting that we live in a universe that doesn't give a dam that i do, nor need to.
and as i've said before, i'm really glad that it doesn't.
think about it. if it did, we'd never have the hope of the unexpected.

 

So what exactly do creationist achieve by pointing out that life is a rare occurrence dependent on many variables? Certainly not that the universe is fine tuned for life. These examples are completely irrelevant. Unless we lived in a universe where we knew that EARTH was the only single planet in the entire universe to ever exist, that all things worked out 1 out of 1 times. We know better than this, we know there are billions of galaxies each with billions of stars and therefore billions and billions of planets. This is exactly what the second video is trying to explain. Is the concept of probabilities so completely over their heads that they don't realize they are contradicting their own beliefs with this argument? Life only matters to life, and creationists are clearly closed up deep inside that box of thinking.