Crap! A "Gun Control Task Force"

Almost as many people are killed by guns every day in the US (>80) as are killed in motor vehicle accidents (>90). One of these things is essential in modern life and one is not. To me, it's crazy. Abnormal becomes (seemingly) normal.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/12/18/1353811/australia-gun-control-suicides/?mobile=nc

Yes, a gun control task force is coming and the NRA won't be part of it.

 

and since 9/11 airplane security has been corrected.
and since 9/11 over 300000 Americans have been killed by guns.

Clearly if you want to kill more Americans,
just sell them more guns.

 

That is completely false. If this wasn't a public forum I would give you pages of first hand examples to back that statement up.
Airport security has been slightly improved. That's all. You've been lulled into a false sense that TSA is on it. Mission accomplished.

 

As far as I know there has been no info on if Adam Lanza was on any kind of med.s . A few people on medication have done strange things , its a bad reaction to the medacation . I dont think the big drug co.s like that kind of info to get out . Maby its not the gun that is the problem but the big drug co.s desert rat

 

With the shoe bomber, we now have to take off shoesFFOREVER, and with the underwear bomber, we now have full body scans FOREVER. We have grandmas and babies being searched for weapons. It's a joke. It's a big politically correct knee jerk reaction to single incidences. And a paranoia of individual rights infringement rather than using good judgement on where the risks exists.

It is a false sense, I agree. I wonder how much scrutiny applicants to pilot school go through. That is how our planes got turned into mass killing weapons.

 

So then, shall we ban aircraft? As TM mentioned above, more people are killed in highway accidents than with guns. Should we ban vehicles? Stating that cars are a necessity and guns aren't is a false comparison. What they have in common is there are people that have no business owning or using these tools.
Few reasonable people have an objection to controlling who gets access to guns. And few would suggest outlawing cars because people get killed everyday by them.

 

Just as we can't ban cars or planes, banning guns isn't going to work. The current laws that are in place haven't prevented the latest shootings. If anyone here in this discussion would lik to propose one law that would have made a difference, I would like to hear it.

What happened in the school that day is a sequence of events that cannot be prevented. We want to, we think it can, but we can't. There is no predicting that a woman gun collector, her autistic son, and a small school in CT would somehow come together and result in the saddest most tragic terribly barbaric killings.

 

:2thumbsup:

And many proponents of gun laws have admitted recently that the assault weapon ban did nothing. But it's coming back. Watch.
Cause like you said, we have to do something.
And that's much easier than doing the hard work of getting down to identify and address root causes.

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/23/16789...s-previous-efforts-at-gun-control?ft=1&f=1001

 

roor, have you bumped your head and lost IQ points?
You bein' silly in dis thread.

If Mcviey had used a gun, nowhere near as many would have died.
The Tokyo Sarin attack only killed 8 people because they fucked up their delivery system. It was supposed to be an aerosol spray and it didn't work so the Sarin liquid was simply left exposed in the cars. So all those people died and many others were taken ill simply by a passive delivery system.
If their delivery system had worked as planned, nobody would have left those subway cars.


All these nutjobs trying to make headlines are going about it all wrong.
So you massacre a bunch of innocent people and make the headlines for a few weeks and maybe get mentioned in some dry crime documentary, pffff, amateurs.

If you really want to make a splash that will last get a hold of some smallpox virus and release it into a heavily populated hub of travel, you know a major international airport. Then within a week-10 days you will be enjoying the fruits of your malicious labor all over the world and it would continue to spread and kill unabated for quite a while before it could be brought under control, not to mention we would then have one of the deadliest and most communicable diseases known out roaming free again.

One cool thing about it is almost all the people under about 50 would be susceptible. All us old farts who actually were vaccinated may stand a chance of survival.
Wouldn't that make any doom & gloom nutjob just cream their jeans?:2thumbsup:



Hey, maybe if we all just ignore the nuts when shit like this happens it will take all the fun out of it for the them.

"Hey, look Ma, I just slaughtered a bus full of people!"

"Yeah, yeah, whatever junior, go clean your room!"

 

What's false about noting that vehicles are an essential part of modern life and guns are not? If vehicles (from cars to 18-wheelers) were mostly gone, life would change radically. If guns were mostly gone, life for most of us would change very little. Looking at a part of that question (bad drivers/bad gun owners) doesn't do it justice.

I'm in complete agreement with, "Few reasonable people have an objection to controlling who gets access to guns." Yet we've been in thrall to the NRA for too long and I hope that this (Newtown) will break their grip on America.

I don't think there is a big right answer. I think there is a real good chance that our society in rotting from within at an ever-accelerating pace.

Here's what I'm working on:

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
Where there is injury, pardon.
Where there is doubt, faith.
Where there is despair, hope.
Where there is darkness, light.
Where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.

 

Ah, St. Francis, yes?

Life would change radically if either were gone. The falseness I mention is the premise of comparing the necessity of them vs the end result of these tools in the wrong hands.
We don't take cars away from irresponsible people nearly as much as we should and the result is way too many needless deaths.
Banning is not the answer, regardless of necessity. If that makes sense. I often have the same fear as you re:society.

I admire the path of peace you pursue TM.

 

And just as you must get a special license to drive a semi or motorcycle, there should be no problem doing the same with different types of guns.

I have repeatedly proposed things that would lessen the chance of this sort of thing, and all you say is "well it COULD still have happened"

This "gun collector" did not keep her guns safe, and she taught an autistic child with known personality disorders to shoot. Know why he shot up a school? Because she hated how he was taught in public school, withdrew him, and probably spent years railing against them to him.

A simple fucking lock on the gun, much less a safe, and not letting autistic AND messed-in-the-head kids play with guns, would have saved her life, his life, twenty childrens lives, and a few besides.

If she was a gun enthusiast, as I've read, she should have had her shit locked up properly. The problem is, the people who think they have the best handle on guns are usually the least stable and the least ACTUALLY in control.... most normal people understand the great care and respect that guns require, and most people who loudly claim to do NOT understand or practice those levels of care. This is the crowd (which calgirl presumably belongs to) who says that this sort of thing is not preventable, while leaving weapons sitting out on their nightstand and kitchen table.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/22/politics/gun-debate/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

Hey Roor, question. So do you think if we had near-perfect gun control, that is, along the lines you're advocating like always locked up, trigger locks, training, registration, any and all combo of those things... do propose that would prevent mentally ill people from going on murder sprees?
Not trying to poke at you, but sincerely trying to get where you're coming from with that.

Edit: I mean substantially reduce killings as opposed to stopping one or two.

 

Guns are not the only issue, its the mental health of this society, of the American society.

 

Well if it worked perfectly, of course it would prevent all of them.

Realistically, nothing ever does.

But anywhere is a start, and again, my favorite idea is to mandate trigger locks be included with every gun, along with a paper that explains how to use it and the benefits of using it, as well as having the guy at the gun store mention that it's a good idea, could save lives, could protect you from legal action if your gun is hijacked, could protect you from someone who got your gun and was in your house, etc etc etc.

Again, just like a seatbelt can't save everyone, and not everyone will use it-- and I don't think there should be a penalty for not using a trigger lock or safe (just like I don't think there should be a penalty for not wearing your seatbelt) but I think there should be a system in place to hold people responsible if they have totally unsecured guns stolen, when they can't give a good reason that it was not secured.

So yes, I think it would save lives, without hindering anyone's rights at all. Think of this situation: if all of this womans guns had been locked up, even in a very basic way, and she had done the responsible thing and NOT given her mentally ill child a way to access them, he would have had to get a key from her, and then ready a gun, before he could have killed anyone. She would have stood a chance to resist, and if that failed, to get help, instead of simply getting shot in her sleep.

Beyond that, requiring more in-depth registration would help some situations, not others. Though balbus pointed out at least one (unrelated) problem with it, my militia idea should lead to the relatively rapid control of guns and scrutiny of their owners, with OUT limiting the types of guns owned, or who owns them, without serious reason to do so.

 

I want to remind ever one reading this post that in the early 1900 s proibition did not really prevent any one from getting alchol . All it really did was to turn gangsters in to milloners . You can down load plans to make a 9 mm sub machine gun , they can be made with some basic tools . There also plans to make some thing close to a .50 cal Barret gun . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtzk8HNPzHY"].50 cal Barrett fired from the kneeling! - YouTube This one is almost forgotten to history but was cheep and easy to make for about $2 (1945) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator desert rat
p.s. http://www.genitron.com/Unique-Handgun/7/Guide-Lamp-Liberator-Pistol

 

It takes a fair amount of doing to create even a crude gun, of any type.

Nobody was going to shoot 20 kids with a garage-gun.

By comparison, you can take any old piece of fruit, (bonus points if you add bread yeast, but it's not necessary unless you're using pure sugar instead of fruit) water, and a jug with a pinhole in the top, and make perfectly functioning alcohol, that will get you exactly as drunk as if it was legally made.

It IS easy to convert semi-auto guns to auto, some even do it on their own with no modification as they age, I know 1911's can malfunction and fire multiple rounds per trigger pull. But I don't think it should be illegal to own automatic weapons. I think you should pay an extra tax on them, maybe.

Starting from square one, it is NOT easy to build a functioning, safe, reliable gun. It takes considerably more work and skill than building a (much more deadly) bomb. I don't think it should be illegal to build guns, but regardless, let's stop pretending that in case of a ban, everyone will build them in their garage. The illicet market would be fed with existing guns, as it currently is.

 

P.S. One of many files http://h33t.com/torrent/4106461/the-do-it-yourself-submachine-gun desert rat

 

Cool, downloaded. *edit* not so cool, your website thinks I'm stupid and has about ten download links per page, each for a .exe. meh.

I don't see that this stands counter to my point.