Cowboy and Indian day. Should I talk to the teacher? AGAIN?

Discussion in 'Parenting' started by Levi, May 26, 2004.

  1. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Messages:
    4,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would agree that school is sugar coated. However, i would not advocate first graders(i believe thats what grade we were talking about here was) hear about rape/scalping/mass murder and such. It is not appropriate. This is just a bunch of kids having fun and they wont think the less of anyone because of it.

    I'm confused by what you want. You want them to portray the history in how they dress up? I'm guessing you mean that different tribes dress in different ways and not that indians and cowboys killed each other. As i said, i think parents need to get more involved in their childs education and this is a perfect oppurtunity for kids/parents to research and dress your kid appropriately.
     
  2. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Messages:
    4,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, i think that kids dressing up as cowboys and indians isnt a big deal. Yes i think women not being allowed to walk around town topless isnt a big deal. I think banning cowboys and indians IS a big deal since its ruining apart of Americana. Yes i think allowing women to walk around town topless is a big deal. Thats why i am arguing against them

    Um, you use a ethnic slur and want to make a day out of it and compare it to cowboys and indians? There is no comparison, thats what i meant. You intentionally used an ethnic slur and compare it to people dressing up as indians? Come on, a fair comparison to cowboys and indians would be having an italian food day and then being upset if all the kids brought in spaghetti and meatballs.

    No one is showing disrespect to the Indians by dressing up like cowboys and indians. I do find it ironic that no one is saying that people dressing up like cowboys is racist. Yes, because all whites are cowboys...right. Oh wait, its acceptable to disparage whites.
     
  3. Applespark

    Applespark Ingredients:*Sugar*

    Messages:
    2,875
    Likes Received:
    29
    Actualy it would be better to not have that dress up time at all it isnt really needded but if you have to have a day to dress up at least give the children some accurate representation. I am a mother and I would not want my child learning about the rape of people that's not what I ment. To portray the history a school could have a festive day of learning activities etc. Going to museums or cook some native meals or some other things I have heard otehrs already say in this thread were great ideas on how to teach children about cultural diversity and the past.
     
  4. HappyHaHaGirl

    HappyHaHaGirl *HipForums Princess*

    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    16
    There used to be a lady in Nashville that went around to all the different schools to teach about Native Americans. We would spend the whole day cooking their food and playing the games they played and learning how to use a bow and arrow and stuff... She dressed like the Indians who were in Tennessee would have dressed.... we dressed up, too, and I remember her getting really mad at this kid once because he wore a headdress, which, apparently, Tennessee Indians didn't wear because they aren't suitable for wearing when you're running through the woods.

    But we did learn a lot, and we dressed up, and I'm still not racist or anything... so I think your kid will be okay running around in a costume for just one day. Pretend it's Halloween. :D
     
  5. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Messages:
    4,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure, i am all for doing research on a certain tribe and then dressing up like them.

    However, by cooking some native meals are you not stereotyping? Surely not all indians eat the same thing. The problem is, then you have to break it down by tribe. Then it gets too complicated for young kids and too expansive for teachers to work into their curriculum when its meant only to be a passing thing. We are talking young, young kids here. It is meant only as a fun day to get kids excited about school like the 'fun hat day' that was mentioned earlier.

    Why does this have to be such a big deal? Maybe its because todays parents feel the schools are the only ones that are supposed to be educating the kids and not also themselves. Parents should be teaching their kids about respect and diversity too. Atleast i know my parents did.

    Kids can have cowboy and indian day and be respectful of indians.
     
  6. freeinalaska

    freeinalaska Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    3
    I'm glad you know what is "appropriate" Just what age do we tell our kids the truth about issues? So we say one day, "Honey you are fifteen now and I just wanted to tell you I've been hiding the truth to you about everthing from cowboys and indians to homelessness."

    I thinks it is quite appropriate to begin educating you children early. My four year old is aware of the attempted genocide of the native Americans. No, I did not give her graphic details, but want to give her a sense of her heritage.
     
  7. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Messages:
    4,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have every right to do that as a parent. I meant its not appropriate for schools to be teaching young kids that with any detail, teaching with vague references to bad people killing innocents is different, IMO.

    Yes it is a slippery slope on what age is "acceptable." However i think most people can agree that for a 5-6 year old it isnt appropriate. Heck, i dont know if i'd want to expalin it to a 15 year old with any graphic detail what happened.

    The real problem here is that political correctness is destroying American culture. Soon there wont be any American culture, it will just be a mish mash of a billion different cultures that have been edited to fit into some ideal formed by political correctness.
     
  8. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,002
    Likes Received:
    11
    The best parenting advise always seems to come from the childless. Why is that?

    I was a perfect parent once, then I had kids........anonymous



    I have news for you. That is a description of "American Culture." How else would you describe "American Culture" than a mish mash of different cultures???? With the exception of Native Americans, we all came from "different cultures" whose is appropriate for "America" only those who aren't brown, red, yellow or black, or only the Germanic-Anglo-Saxon-Nordic cultures? Don't you see that "American culture" is exactly what you are complaining about. If it isn't than please define WHAT it is.
     
  9. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Messages:
    4,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, because people used to come to this country to become AMERICAN, not to be a mexican in the United States. Thats exactly what the irish, italians, germans and others did when they came to this country in the late 19th and early 20th century


    Like it or not, our cultural is hugely influenced by Judeo-Christian ethics and influences.

    No, our culture is not a mish mash of cultures, there is(or was) a defining overature of what american culture was that every american identified with. It is about knowing that sunday is for church and football and that baseball isnt baseball without peanuts and crackerjacks. The names Babe ruth, joe namaeth, mickey mantle and the yankees mean something to you(good or bad). It is knowing about who Frank sinatra and elvis presley are, and no, the local impersonator doesnt count. It is about knowing who donald duck, bugs bunny, fred flinstone, bill cosby, mr rogers, the adams family and the three stooges are. It is about knowing what star wars, casablanca and gone with the wind are. It is about being independent and determined and not wanting to accept handouts. It is about looking at a great depression in the eye and going swing dancing anyways, it is not about complaining that the welfare check isnt big enough. It was about the whoel nation mourning when JFK died and everyone cheering when the beatles came. It was the whole nation watching as neil armstrong stepped on the moon. And as jimmy carter famously said, "in a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities and our faith in god, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns." So sad, and so true.

    I dont know what america you might live in, But the america i live in is not a mix of iranian-chinese-japanese-mongolian-thai-malay-nigerian-french-italian-south africa-brazilian-sudanese cultures. Though, they all live here happily. But america's culture is dying. People are coming to this country and starting their own little fucking irans. Political correctness has ensured the destruction of everything we grew up with. We all spoke english in this country, and god was a very, very big part of this countrys history. With the likes of the ACLU on an an anti christian binge to remove any christian symbols but pushes for muslim prayers to be taught in history class because it "promotes diversity" is atrocious and should piss off every freaking american. It is not about letting every extremist view be equally accepted in this society.

    People used to be proud to say they were americans. Now it takes 9/11 for someone to give two shits about their country. There has always been a sense of duty and honor in being an american, now its about who can i sue to get a quick buck. We have gone from JFK saying "ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country" to "what can i get from uncle sam." Everyone thinks they are entitled to everything and that they dont have to work for it anymore. Yes, american culture is dying.

    edit: As the statue of liberty says "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" America is to be America, not england, not france, not mexico nor china. It is to be AMERICA.
     
  10. Levi

    Levi Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  11. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Messages:
    4,719
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  12. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,002
    Likes Received:
    11
    Megara, what on earth are you talking about?

    WFT? THIS is "American Culture?" I think you are seriously midguided.

    The USA has been know as the Melting Pot for several hundred years. That is what it is. An amalgam of the cultures of the people who populate this country. One of the reasons people COME to this country is the freedom to continue to live and worship the way they want. Not to watch the stooges. <eye roll>
     
  13. Applespark

    Applespark Ingredients:*Sugar*

    Messages:
    2,875
    Likes Received:
    29
    Yeah it jsut gose to show that tv has warped yet another person.
     
  14. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Messages:
    4,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    As i said, there are people from every country in the world who comes to this country. But if you think there is no overriding american culture, then i dont know what warped world you live in. Yes, someone from lesotho can come to america and worship any gods or any traditions they want, thats the freedom that is provided by this country. That however, is NOT american culture.

    Sorry, but take paris for example, the city is just as diverse as any in the US. Are you going to tell me there isnt a french culture? Same with Rome...is there no Italian culture?

    I think you are naive fi you believe there is NOT a distinct American Culture.

    Just because we take people from every country in the world and provide them the freedom to keep their traditions and worship any god they want, does NOT mean that we have no distinct culture. This is the biggest joke i've ever heard.
     
  15. Levi

    Levi Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    0


    Again, you completely miss the point. If kids learn about the art, history, traditional foods and cultures of the LOCAL Indians, from their community, that is entirely different than saying 'Come to school dressed like an Indain'.

    Doing relevant activities that have to do with the people in the area where the children live is the opposite of stereotyping. This could be as simple as a trip to the museum. There's a museum filled entirely with the art of the local tribes within walking distance of my daughter's class. If her teacher's goal was to expand their cultural awareness or inspire an interest in American history, that would have been an excellent activity. That also would not focus on gore and violence, but on a rich local culture.

    An experience like that would make the culture real and tangible, and hopefully instill a sense of respect. I think I'll mention that to my daughter's teacher. I know that my kids love the museum, so I think it's entirely age appropriate.

    I would like to point out also, that I am not anti-white or something. I never said kids should ONLY learn about Indians. I am pro-respect. I live in a diverse community, and a diverse family. I think that the notion that American culture is dying is bogus. American culture is by it's very nature diverse. Cultures that evolve survive. If some people decide that certain recent immigrants aren't acting 'American' enough, what comes next? Commitees to come up with standards of what is acceptable American behavior? I believe that's called McCarthyism. It didn't work out. Thank goodness.

    I would also like to add myself to the list of people who had parenting all figured out until they had kids, Maggie Sugar!

    Megara, if you look back at my very first post when I started this thread, I mentioned that I'm particularly interested in the opinions of other parents and their experiences. That was no accident.
     
  16. Applespark

    Applespark Ingredients:*Sugar*

    Messages:
    2,875
    Likes Received:
    29
    I just have to agree that dressing up isn't a nessessary part of their learning process. It isn't going to damage them for life but it isn't really needed. As you said there are plenty of other fun things to do to learn. Dressing up is a pretend thing and dressing up is a fun thing...but it really does not help them learn. Especially since they are learning from each other...none of whome really know waht cowboys and indians wore so it's not going to be accurate learning from one another even if it was for that purpose.

    As for American culture...there is definate American culture. Everything around me is American culture...from my appliances to my clothing to the music to the events that take place in this country...to the polotics that run our "free people" ... Those same polotics that worked way back when people were coming to America were the base and foundation of everything we have and do today. Everything that is in this country was created around the diverse people here. If we are going to change anything in this world we have to learn efectively and we have to learn the whole truth about our history. Fuck patriotism and start thinking for ourselves and taking resposibility for what our children take in as knowledge. And so I don't think you are wrong levi for wanting your child to learn efectively. The truth will set you free.
     
  17. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Messages:
    4,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    First off, to you and everyone else who has put me down for not having kids of my own, let me tell you to open up your minds and stop holding everyone that isnt a parent in contempt. You act as if you are the only ones who care about the education of kids in this country. I have spent countless hours tutoring/volunteering/working on the school board to help improve our local schools, but oh wait, only mothers care about the quality and content of education in this country. Ontop of that, you act as if you have discovered parenting and only you have a right to speak of it or what kids should learn. You have every right to teach your kid what you want outside of school, but when you talk about in school education it has far reaching reprecussions much further than just your child, and i have EVERY RIGHT to speak on it and interject my point of view. However, that would require you to stop holding me in contempt for us to get anywhere, I wont hold my breath for that.


    I find it ironic that you point to McCarthyism while it is YOU or who are looking to ban something, while i am the one who wants the education open. The fact is, you disagree with something and you want to ban it for everyone else. You, lady, are the problem with this country by trying to enforce your view on everyone else. Generations of americans have grown up playing cow boys and indians, and guess what, they are the same ones who were pushing for the civil rights movements in this country 40 years ago and even today. You have somehow confused kids having fun with brainwashing and instilling racism and negative stereotypes when it is nothing of the sort.

    No, lady, i will not keep my mouth shut on something i disagree with, THAT would be McCarthyism. Lodge your complaint if you will, you have that right, but dont try and force the issue if you are the only mother that has a problem with it.
     
  18. flojin

    flojin Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think that lecturing and shaming your daughter was a lame way to handle the situation. If she doesn't get why dressing up as an Indian is wrong, maybe you should teach her about Indians and educate her rather than scolding her. She shouldn't be stuck in the middle of an ideological dispute between you and her teacher.
     
  19. sugrmag

    sugrmag Uber Nerd

    Messages:
    2,232
    Likes Received:
    3
    Levi, if you have a problem with your child's curriculum, you have every right to complain about it. She is YOUR child. Perhaps all the other parents need is for you to open their eyes.
    "Cowboy and Indian Day" in MY opinion, perpetuates the myth that Indians were the bad guys and the cowboys were the good guys. I would have a problem with that, too.
     
  20. Levi

    Levi Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    0

    I am not trying to ban the subject from school. I think it should approached in responsible, useful manner. I think the kids deserve better.As someone else pointed out, dress up isn't a useful way to teach about this. The kids aren't experts.

    And when I initially asked for the opinions of parents, it's because that's what I wanted. Those are the opinions I'm most interested in This is a parenting forum. Parents. It doesn't mean that people who aren't parents can't participate. I could go on gay or Hare Krisna forums if I wanted to. That doesn't make me a gay Hare Krisna.

    I did appreciate it when people shared their experiences as kids dealing with relevant things, though. Thanks, folks.

    Back to Megara. I'm not trying to censor you. You don't, however, have experience with having a kid whose school curriculum bothers you. I am interested in talking to people with experience from that perspective. I want to know how they dealt with it.

    Over and over again I see men having tantrums on the women's forum and teenagers who aren't parents freaking out on here. (Yes, I see, you're 21. la dee freakin da). I didn't tell you that you can't speak, Megara, I just told you that I'm not interested in your opinion.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice