Copies of copies of copies?

Lynnbrown · Nov 26, 2010

I would be willing to bet that the Vatican holds texts older (and perhaps different?) than any place else.
I'm not Catholic, and I will be first to say they (along with other religions) helped to pave the way to some atrocities. That being said, Ukr didn't bring up catholicism...uh, he was responding to it. And I don't know why I'm taking up for you ukr...
I guess it's because even tho I find flaws there (in Catholicism), (hey, I'm a free-thinking female) I think those manuscripts that have managed to "make it" - be it the words in the bible (KJV), the Apocrypha, or whatever - I do truly think the main point can be found....even if it happens to come from copies of copies of copies.

tanasi · Nov 27, 2010

" A missionary once undertook to instruct a group of indians in the truths of his holy religion.He told them of the creation of the earth in six day and the fall of our first parents by eating a fruit.The courteous savages listened attentively,and after thanking him,one related in his turn a very ancient tradition concerning the origin of the maize.The missionary plainly showed disgust and disbelief,indignantly saying " What I delivered to you were sacred biblical truths,but this that you tell me is mere fable and lies!"The indian said,"My brother, it seems that you have not been well grounded in the rules of civility you saw that we,who practice these rules, believed your stories, why then do you refuse to credit ours?"

Copies of copies of copies has been and is held above all other beliefs because they are deemed "the true word of God". Without an original autograph they too are mere fable.The creator put his autograph on the heart of man not in a book. I have no intent to ridicule anyone,but instead to be truthful,upfront and even playful with my brothers and sisters.Now if my words, polite or playful causes one to become indignant or have ill feelings toward me, my only reply is that of the priest or pastor,"I am only the messenger"and my heart and intent is pure before our great creator.

Okiefreak · Nov 27, 2010

jeffd_57 said:

No original manuscripts exist for any ancient book. Writing materials were too fragile to stand the passage of centuries. This is the case for Aristotle, Plato, Julius Caesar, the writings of Buddha and the Koran just as much as it is for the Old and New Testaments.

However, we possess today some 5,000 ancient Greek copies of the New Testament, and 10,000 copies in other ancient languages. Latin and Coptic copies go back to the second century; fragments of papyrus documents go back to AD 130. Quotations in the writings of early church fathers date to A.D. 100. Complete versions of the Gospels, Acts, Paul's letters and Hebrews date to the early part of the third century; Revelation to the latter half. Complete volumes of the New Testament date to the 4th century.

Now compare these manuscripts with other ancient documents. Of Caesar's Gallic Wars, we have today only nine or ten good manuscripts, none copied earlier than 900 years after Caesar. For the Histories of Tacitus, we have only 4 of his 14 original books, none copied earlier than the 10th century A.D. For Aristotle's works, we possess only five manuscripts of any one volume, none copied earlier than A.D. 1100 (14 centuries after the original).

Manuscript evidence for the New Testament is remarkable, far surpassing that which exists for any other ancient book. And those who work with these ancient copies (called "textual critics") are convinced that they have been able to recover a Greek New Testament which is virtually identical to the original.

It is the sheer volume of copies that ensured that the message of the Bible was preserved because if any person or group made changes it would immediately be obvious that their corrupted version was out of step with everyone elses copies.

If we were dependent on just one set of originals then the risk is they could be lost, destroyed or altered. The best way to preserve an important message is to make as many copies of it as possible and give them to as many different people as possible and in every known language - which was exactly what they did.
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For convincing evidence to the contrary, see Bart Ehrman's various writings, especially Misquoting Jesus ,in which he documents numerous instances of clerical misscopying, some by mistake and others more than likely, deliberate.

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Copies of copies of copies?

Lynnbrown Firecracker

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Copies of copies of copies?

Lynnbrown Firecracker

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